NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2014

[10to12]

Guys, the 4 games per season rule has been around for 50 years. The issue is that club numbers are dropping and drastically dropping on the north shore and eastern suburbs where the schools play regular Saturday comps.
All this talk about bringing in hot shots to win trophies and get two shots at further selection (might happen a bit) all teams are going to get "Jacks mate who's a star "if they can.
The vast majority of boys in these teams have been playing club rugby with their mates since they were 6 yo.They have bought sausage sandwiches and a coke at every game , reserved for the older team helped set up and pulldown ovals. They are true clubmen. Afew might go on to make a higher team but the majority don't they love playing rugby.
16 year old finds himself playing 1st rugby and there is not a parent alive who says I want you to play club on sunday. So after 10 or 11 years of club rugby he has played 160+ club games and will miss the last 10 because the school rugby has become his priority.
I know of one boy who played with 11 teams last year, club and school , played club since he was 4-5 but will pull out after his 4 games (50 yo rule) because of his school commitments.
SJRU have to have a good long hard look at themselves if they want to exclude this type of kid from their program.
If this grandfather rule is to change , bring it in at twelve so everyone k ows whats in front of them don't slam it onto a bunch of kids that just want to play rugby.
Some of this is obviously WIIFM cause my kid can't make the team, but I have found that in the higher rep teams theboys want to play with the best and the political ring ins despite their parents dinner table conversation are found out and the boys know who they are.




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[Hugh Jarse]

It comes down to the intent of the championships and representative teams.

All comers, loyal Village club rugby boys from Under 6's, mungos who want to give it a go, kids who have been locked up in the school system since Under 13's, etc get a lash at higher honours and development via the Junior Gold Cup programme.

Is the SJRU representative team to represent those kids currently playing rugby for Sydney Juniors, or those kids resident in Sydney, who may have previously played for Sydney Juniors?

Should Harry Jones been made available last year for AAGPS rep selection? He had been a loyal AAGPS student for a number of years previously. He and his family had bought food and drinks from the various canteens around the schools, yet he was excluded from being selected as an AAGPS representative player in 2013 by the little fact that he was no longer attending an AAGPS School.

The SJRU, and NSW JRU representative team should only consist of boys who currently play in SJRU and NSW JRU sanctioned competitions.

The Sydney and NSW Age Group representative teams are a different kettle of fish altogether. These don't exist ATM, but would look like geographic combination of the Sydney and Country JGC squads. At the moment boys eligible for this team in the Under 17, and U18 level are playing under a variety of administrations, with some playing under multiple administrations. These are:
a. Sydney JRU/NSW Country JRU
b. Sydney RU Colts
c. NSW Schools RU (AAGPS, CAS, ISA, AICES, CCC, CHS, NSW Country Schools)
d. Mungo Teams

Perhaps NSW State Championships should be open to all comers, from anywhere with the various representative teams chosen from the State Championships limited by eligibility criteria.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Perhaps NSW State Championships should be open to all comers, from anywhere with the various representative teams chosen from the State Championships limited by eligibility criteria.

In the absence of detail I cannot be entirely sure but I have a feeling this is just adding another layer of complexity to an already overly complex situation

 

[10to12]

Hugh, happy for the SJRU rep team to be for participants of their comp. They need to change the grandfather rule which they have done for 16s and then remove the 50 year old rule from all age groups so that 4 games does not qualify you to participate. No problems. The fact that this will relegate their 16s comp to a poor cousin of the schools 16s is for them to deal with. My point for this years 16s is that many are doing what the SJRU have asked them to do ie play four games and they are being castigated as users /abusers wjen in fact they have had a very long club life and they are abiding by the rules of the SJRU.

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[Slugga]

Can anyone tell me why they believe North’s were an all concurring side last year. The results don’t support the myth.

For the record:

• As difficult as it may be to accept they came third in the champs despite a better for and against.
• As the de-facto barbarians in the regional’s they were third on both the table and the f/A, how could this be?
• Their season F/A was a long second behind Gordon at 161/55 and ahead of Eastwood 161/107
• In head to head they beat the Woods 14-0 and that score was flattering and
• As the de-facto barbarians they were beaten by Western zone.

‘head and shoulders’ above the rest? Hardly.

What they did excel was in getting picked for the Sydney/NSW sides. That’s 9 players, 40%of the squad, with the remaining 60% shared between 7 clubs - Sounds fair.

Of course not all teams were so fortunate. Eastwood/WZ - second and first respectively could only manage 12% and 20% representation. A third as many, and the zone who actually won the tournament only manage half.Nothing to see here right?

My point is there is not a level playing field and there are people and clubs doing everything they can to stack the deck at the expense of the competition and rugby in general.

Which brings me to the HH/Mosman stack and the Gordon ghosts, but that will have to waite for the next post.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Does anyone really care?
There are so many assumptions, falsities and double standards in this post.
How, for instance, is a 14-0 scoreline flattering in a 45 minute game - did one of the goals only just scrape in?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hugh, happy for the SJRU rep team to be for participants of their comp. They need to change the grandfather rule which they have done for 16s and then remove the 50 year old rule from all age groups so that 4 games does not qualify you to participate. No problems. The fact that this will relegate their 16s comp to a poor cousin of the schools 16s is for them to deal with. My point for this years 16s is that many are doing what the SJRU have asked them to do ie play four games and they are being castigated as users /abusers wjen in fact they have had a very long club life and they are abiding by the rules of the SJRU.

If the boys have complied with an eligibility rule, then they are eligible.

If the eligibility rules are manipulated/abused then this can be laid at the feet of the SJRU. Funnily enough there is a thread on the demise of numbers in SJRU.

I still believe that there should be one competition where all the best boys play in. Get rid of all the Traffic Controllers in charge of the speed bumps on the pathway.

 

[Slugga]

The score line was flattering because it was good fortune rather than management that got them the points they did, ergo they deserved the win but it was nothing to write home about, unlike selection night at St Leonards.

 

[Slugga]

Inside shoulder I care because these little fiefdoms don't benefit rugby, they screw over talented and not so talented kids, make the competition a joke and drive people out of the game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The score line was flattering because it was good fortune rather than management that got them the points they did, ergo they deserved the win but it was nothing to write home about, unlike selection night at St Leonards.

So I've checked you posting history: anything by way of paternal interest to declare in your obsession with this issue? Which is actually off topic.
I explained some of the issues here: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/u-15-sjru-nsw-schools.13112/page-5#post-515969
You could volunteer to do the heavy lifting for the SJRU.
This thread is about 2014 - you could always post in the U15s 2013 thread.

 

[Slugga]

Debating who had the second best team misses the point. Either way they can consider themselves very lucky to have a thumping 60% of the team selected for Sydney, three times more than any of the seven other clubs.
And why the focus on a game lost to Gordon (but not by as much as Eastwood), Do the Regional’s have any relevance in this? Obviously not.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

2014 thread folks.

Discussion about Selection Bias, unfairness etc to that particular thread.
Here:
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...quads-unfairness-etc.8261/page-30#post-528499

 

[Slugga]

Parental, club, district and game interests actually but that’s hardly relevant to the issues I’ve raised, how about you address those. Anyway, flattered you took the time to read my other musings, I trust your better informed for the effort.

What I’m saying is the questionable selection process that occurred last year is symptomatic of the wider disease of egomania and self indulgence that is causing real damage and driving people away from the game.

Like Chatswood’s 17 players, 14 of which are the Gordon side. Any wager’s on a couple of withdrawals after the reps and a letter of sincere regret advising the SJR they can no longer field a side. If it comes to pass if that's not self indulgence what is?
And what’s the Mosman/HH 1stxv about. Is the competition a training run for the self appointed elites? That’s how it’s being treated but they could at least be honest about it. Mind you I fail to see how flogging sides by 40 points is in the interests of the game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Mind you I fail to see how flogging sides by 40 points is in the interests of the game.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda.
Have a look at the results of the Mosman/HH team before engaging in your ill informed, partisan whingeing.
The Raptors - predominantly the Penrith State Champs team beat Mosman/HH.

 

[Slugga]

Selection bias isn't the central theme here, It's just a symptom of the wider corruption of the SJRU, state and regional championships and the disregard for the majority of players not privy to the inner circle.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There's a new committee running SJRU - I'm surprised you didn't volunteer.
Let's get back to 2014 State Champs: looking at the result across U16s it doesn't seem like any of the comps are desirable: A and B both only have 6 teams - with floggings in both levels.

 

[Slugga]

That's the second comprehension melt down you've had IS, I'll type slower.

It had Nothing to do with HH results so stop your fretting and try and focus on what I've actually been saying..

The point I was making was that formation of super teams capable of flogging most teams...by say 40 pts (except of course the other super teams) is not good for the health of rugby.

That's my agenda, so what's yours? It sure isn't addressing anything points I've been making.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Your so called super teams have not flogged anyone.
My only agenda, in this case, is to uncover your self interest .
And to stop you hijacking this thread by discussing things other than the 2014 state champs.

 

[Slugga]

What game?
The only game you've acknowledged and peddled as justification for 60% of the team being selected for Sydney. You know, the semi final you've been cheering about where they lost to Gordon by less points than Eastwood in the finals. What an achievement.

 

[Slugga]

And to stop you hijacking this thread by discussing things other than the 2014 state champs

Stop being so precious, what I've been saying has everything to do with the state championships. You're hung up on my apparent hidden agenda and other conspiracy's, how's that on topic? Save me the forum lecture.