The NBN (National Broadband Network)

[Braveheart81]

Up to a point.
The NBN was to be gold plated and we don't need that for evey infrastructure project. No need for a Porsche when a Commodre will do.

This is such a load of crap.

There is nothing gold plated about making a fibre optic network in 2014 and onwards.

It is not even particularly modern technology.

Our current network is in a state of decay which is to be expected given how old it is. Anyway, we've had this discussion a hundred times but it is pointless to continue it with you.

If Tony Abbott turned around tomorrow and said that the copper network was in a terrible state thanks to Labor's inaction and we needed to build a FTTP network you'd be hailing it as the greatest infrastrucure project in Australian history.

 

[Runner]

This is such a load of crap.

There is nothing gold plated about making a fibre optic network in 2014 and onwards.

It is not even particularly modern technology.

Our current network is in a state of decay which is to be expected given how old it is. Anyway, we've had this discussion a hundred times but it is pointless to continue it with you.

If Tony Abbott turned around tomorrow and said that the copper network was in a terrible state thanks to Labor's inaction and we needed to build a FTTP network you'd be hailing it as the greatest infrastrucure project in Australian history.

Love your colourful responses.

We have had this discussion as you say. The answer will emerge in the fullness of time were one of us will be more or less correct.

 

[boyo]

Prepare yourself - you won't like it.

Run, Forrest, run.

MT's ego won't allow him to admit that he's wrong.

 

[boyo]

Mobile broadband adds $33.8b to Australian economy: report

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/mobile-broadband-adds-338b-to-australian-economy-report-20140403-3609j.html#ixzz2y11UJC2E http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...australian-economy-report-20140403-3609j.html

Imagine what fast reliable nation wide broadband and telecommunications infrastructure could do for the economy?
You would NOT want to try to use mobile broadband to upload anything.

 

[boyo]

NBN Co fibre-to-the-node trials to start next month
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/it-new...rials-to-start-next-month-20140404-zqqvz.html

400 residences covered by 20 nodes. Hardly realistic.
That ratio would mean greater than 300,000 nodes Australia-wide

So much for "cheaper".

 

[boyo]

MT was very vocal about the lack of a CBA for FTTP, but he's particularly silent about the Coalition preferring FTTN before a CBA is performed.

Hmm

 

[boyo]

MT - all talk, no action.

Malcolm Turnbull says NBN plan must change or 300,000 will miss out

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/malcolm-turnbull-says-nbn-plan-must-change-or-300000-will-miss-out-20140408-zqscx.html#ixzz2yMy7IITS

From the comments:-

Malcolm stands before us like the Black Knight from Monty Python....his arms have been cut off and his legs are now under attack, but still his bloody torso will stubbornly refuse to surrender. The strange thing is that he's under attack by his own fellow knights wielding the magical sword of incompetence while dressed in the armour of God. Arise Sir Malcolm, overlord of the national bullshit network.
​

Commenter
PaxUs
Location
Austerelia
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 12:59PM

I'm sorry, anyone who mentions games, movies or porn in their post should be ignored because they have no idea about technology, what it can be used for and why we need it. Seriously so many small startups find it difficult here, because the internet is so slow. Especially the upload speeds which were sacrificed to get fast downloads. Also its about providing a decent minimum service.
I'm sorry the we can't afford it line doesn't cut it with me, because while they are quick to point fingers at lost jobs, they are not willing to build infrastructure that creates jobs and enables people to work from home, thus improving productivity. Given they seem to be all about productivity how does not building the NBN that would improve productivity and create 21st modern jobs not seem a good idea. I'm not going to blame Murdoch because its already too late for his interests. The wheels are in motion and maybe in 2022 when the NBN would have been finished, someone will lose their job because they opposed this now.
The conservatives on this issue really have no idea and it shows.
​

Commenter
Justin
Location
Canberra
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 11:05AM

 

[boyo]

To paraphrase Oliver Hardy: "Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten us into".


Malcolm Turnbull locks in multi-technology NBN
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/govern...ks-in-multitechnology-nbn-20140409-zqsqq.html

From the comments (of which the vast majority are critical of Mtm):-

Turnbull /ˈtərn-bo͝ol/ verb. use deception to deprive a country of its future prosperity. "Australia's #NBN was turnbulled"​

​

Commenter
1999
Location
Date and time
April 10, 2014, 10:26AM

What is the saying? Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes..."​

And we clearly have learned nothing from the railway gauge issue!​

Commenter
Jack
Location
Date and time
April 10, 2014, 7:42AM

Having banged on endlessly about the need for a cost benefit analysis of the NBN approach during the previous government, I assume the CBA for this new model will be released imminently.​

Commenter
Dingo
Location
Date and time
April 10, 2014, 6:22AM

Fraudband is Fraudband no matter how uyou package it. We will not have businesses having access to 100Mb/s both ways, required to send large files in both directions. We willnot have the bandwidth to monitor our oldies intheir homes and thus not be required to move to nursing homes. This is an abomination of a system that will require big bikkies to be spent inthe future to bring it up to the 100Mb/s both ways Labor was building. It will cost us more in electricity to run (Melb Uni says anextra 2-3 power station equivalents will be required to power it. It can not be upgraded to 1000Mb/s that fibre to the premises was. Fraudband is Fraudband no matter how it is spun by this rediculous government who have kept us in the internet technology wilderness now for 15 years.​

Commenter
Pollyho
Location
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 11:27PM

What a complete, utter and disgraceful joke! Not even waiting for the reviews they put in place to give them a technically sensible answer to a long term and crucially important national infrastructure. This is just like their claytons Direct Action Plan to 'achieve' carbon emission reductions morphed to turn the NBN into the same hollow 'nothing ever going to be achieved' approach and leave us once again pathetically lagging the rest of the world.​

Honestly, can anyone still credit Turnbull with any sense of somehow being of a more 'noble' breed of politician?​

We are going to be a much hollowed, much less 'Australian' Australia by the time this mob are out even if its only a one term wonder. It is a shameless government, seeking to fashion us into a divided, narrow and mean set of little people. ​

Not just by something as visionless and neo-conservatively antisocial as the demolishing of a nation building NBN, but by their same visionless, antisocial demolishing of the sociocultural fabrics of our nation. Medicare weakening, selling off a profitable Medibank, reducing or removing taxes from mining giants and pricing carbon, to paying polluters and continuing subsidy to mining giants.​

What do we, the people, get? Slashed and reduced services, inequitable school funding based on discredited models underfunded or cancelled social programmes to name but a very few. ​

I bet they'll find the money for goals, multibillion dollar asylum seeker patrols and lockup of children, inequitable paid parental leave schemes, private hospitals and schools and corporate subsidies.​

This abominated NBN is just a small and subtle example of a philosophy that doesn't believe in an actively cohesive society, one that prioritises its people's needs human as a nation. To them we are units of productivity, and by no means all equal.​

​

Commenter
Warwick
Location
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 10:09PM

Yes, well done Malcolm, the Business case you drew up to support....oh wait...​

Commenter
Dave
Location
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 10:05PM

How many more broken promises will it take for Australians to wake up to the fact that they have been sold a lemon ???​

Commenter
Wake Up
Location
Sydney
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 9:49PM

So once again we have a set of politicians believing they know more then the experts...so why do we pay for the reports and the advise??? The stupidity of this government and this minister knows no bounds - its all about the end - so lets implement a crap solution because we can and the fact that the NBN is and will be the backbone of the Australian economy for next 50 years is tomorrows problem because we'll waste 20-30B on a short term fix and tomorrow can pay the clean up build say 100b.​

Commenter
really
Location
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 8:48PM

Not waiting for the reviews? Isn't this what they accused Labor of doing?​

All a bunch of lies for an inadequate system that will eventually need to be replaced with FttH and cost more than it is projected to cost now. The LNP have admitted they lied about the cost of Labor's NBN and now they're giving us true fraudband and surprise, surprise at about the same time frame a real NBN would take. Who can believe this mob?​

Election now!​

Commenter
n720ute
Location
North Coast NSW
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 8:24PM

There is nothing that smacks of arrogance quite like this. If you already know it all, why waste money on a review that you are going to ignore anyway? Shoddy Government wasting money to pretend to listen when it clearly doesn't. No wonder the recent senate vote sent them a message with a bigger swing than the kicking to Bill Shorten. We deserve a Government that actually reviews the best options, LISTENS, and then chooses what is best value for money. What we have is a one Man band who knows the cost of everything and the VALUE of nothing.​

Commenter
Phil A
Location
Perth
Date and time
April 09, 2014, 7:50PM

the majority of home businesses are hobby businesses that develop into big business. A very big proportion of these businesses are women on maternity leave with craft businesses.
Those big tech businesses that start in someones back shed/study/garage are usually done by the teen members of the household rather than the parents. Teen members don't really have 5 g to spend on internet business.
At best it's a huge impost on businesses starting out (usually when they have very little income coming in) at worst it's going to cost Australia even more time in the tech race.
FttP is going to happen it's how we get there is currently under debate.
NBN was created because the last mile of copper is what needs replacing.
Mixed technology doesn't address the original issue and it's more expensive to get to the end goal​

Commenter
Jess
Location
here
Date and time
April 10, 2014, 11:09AM

 

[Runner]

May be we can get the NBN cheap. Let the free trade agreemnets work for us. Let a Chinese or Korea company build it and it will be done in a week.

 

[boyo]

May be we can get the NBN cheap. Let the free trade agreemnets work for us. Let a Chinese or Korea company build it and it will be done in a week.

FTAs seem to benefit the other country more than they do Australia.

 

[boyo]

The modern home, now, often has several users on the internet at one time e.g. one user may be streaming a TV programme or a movie, another may be uploading file(s) to the cloud, another may be on Skype, another may be on Facebook, etc.

The days of one user being online at one time are long gone.

Adequate speed and reliability for all these aren't available on ADSL or mobile wireless (HFC may have the speed but not necessarily the reliability). HFC and mobile wireless are shared mediums/media, so the more users on at once (i.e. the same network e.g. when the school-kids get home), the worse the performance.

Mtm will cripple the modern home and business.

Australia will be left behind.

 

[I like to watch]

I just don't get it.
The scenario you suggest,is no justification for spending $60-80B.
In any event, if there is a demand, private enterprise will build it.
The Government can then decide on whether it is warranted to subsidise the construction in areas where private enterprise deemed it was not economically feasible.
The Telco's will be investing over $10B on the 4G network.
Logic would suggest,they would be prepared to spend much more than that,to get their slice of the NBN network.

 

[boyo]

Private enterprise has failed to build infrastructure outside of Optus-cabled (HFC) areas (not counting mobile wireless).
The true NBN is paid for by the users, therefore no subsidy necessary.
The cost that you mention is Coalition spin, as they have admitted.
So much for the "fully costed) and "bulletproof" cost of the Coalition plan. Even their "Strategic review" said that their numbers were wrong.

 

[boyo]

NBN hypocrisy confirms contempt for process

"Malcolm Turnbull relentlessly pursued Labor for going ahead with its NBN without first getting a cost-benefit analysis, which makes it particularly galling that he is now doing the same"

"Turnbull has completely changed the architectural and strategic direction of the NBN - without waiting for the results of the cost-benefit analysis (CBA) that he commissioned in December, putatively to guide his decision about the best path forward for the project."

"In aparliamentary address on October 26, 2010, Turnbull said:

[The NBN] has been subject to no financial scrutiny and, remarkably, the government continues to refuse to submit it to a cost-benefit analysis. Everything we know about good government and prudence tells us that a cost-benefit analysis is required.​

​

"...which is why every Australian taxpayer and voter should be deeply disturbed by the Minister's unilateral decision to proceed with his favoured alternative model months before his own cost-benefit analysis is complete.​

In doing so, Turnbull has presupposed the results of a CBA that could, assuming it is conducted fairly and appropriately, very well find that there is a compelling case to continue the current FTTP-based model. Indeed, there is no evidence at all to suggest that Turnbull's favoured MTM model is the best NBN approach to take - only that it will be the cheapest way of completing the network."


From the comments:-

Andrew Thomas:

14 Apr 2014 11:13:01am
Wrong question.

The question you should be asking yourselves and both sides of politics is why you continue to treat such an important piece of infrastructure as some sort of political football.

It never fails to amaze me that people are willing to damage their own county's development to score a few lousy political points.

Build it. And let's start a debate about other important economic we desperately need but the ALP failed to deliver and the LNP have done nothing about either.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-14/braue-nbn-hypocrisy-confirms-contempt-for-process/5384464

 

[boyo]

MT wanted competition. Now it's there, he doesn't like it.

NBN Co takes on TPG Telecom
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/nbn-co-takes-on-tpg-telecom-20140415-36o5x.html


Memories of the cable-wars (HFC) between Telstra and Optus.

No doubt MT will be evasive.

 

[boyo]

FTTN is temporary.

FTTN will be replaced with FTTH at end of decade.

Pay billions more merely to delay the inevitable?

 

[boyo]

I very much doubt that internet access would be greater, and affordability would be better under the Mtm.

Internet access, affordability falling behind, broadband investment needed: Australian Industry Group

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-...rformance-is-declining-economists-say/5407986

 

[Benaud]

Slight aside here for someone with no knowledge of this nor any interest in politics:

Are mobile wireless broadband speeds going to be affected by the NBN at all?

Cheers

 

[boyo]

At this stage I can't see it. Mobile wireless has nothing to do with the NBN or the Mtm.

 

[Benaud]

Oh righto cheers.