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NSW Schools Debating 2014

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Spraggon

Frank Row (1)
Just on the GPS competition: I was talking to a coach at Kings and I can honestly say that their so called "renaissance" is untrue. Their senior teams are both quite weak - the 1sts lost to High at UNSW, and their 2nds have gotten some VERY lucky decisions. In the junior competitions, their is a complete lack of depth in particular in the B's squads. I don't buy any of this.

Also my 2 cents on GPS competition for years to come:

Joeys - completely irrelevant IMO. Shocked if they win more than 50% of their debates in the next 5 years

Scots - good coaches but don't buy the hype. The MIC is looking to cut costs after a disappointing performance over the last few years. There was a significant drop off in their coaching quality once Daniel Swain (world champion, potentially one of the greatest of all time) left; unlikely to be replaced with anyone of comparable calibre.

Shore - dark horse with lots of potential, but unlikely to pay off. In particular, there's a year 10 1st response speaker with alot of promise by the name of Alex Mao. Didn't trial for state squad this year but almost a lock for a 1st grade spot next year. Personally think his ceiling his combined GPS, unlikely to make the state team. But the rest of his team is quite poor.

Riverview - been in a slump in recent years. Severe lack of coaching quality due to a pay decrease. Don't bet on them making a return to their vintage form

Grammar - probably the favourites for a few years to come still. In particular, a year 9 student by the name of Robert Loughley (unsure of spelling?) is debating in their 2nd grade squad and looks like an absolute gun. Future Jimmy STratton?

Kings - already talked about

High - probably the team to look out for in the future. Believe the hype: the class of 2016 and 2017 are very good. I would say the 2016 class are much deeper, but at the top they are still quite outstanding (others have mentioned names so won't bother repeating them). Have the potential to be just as good as the very unlucky class of 2013, or even the class of 2012.

Newington - don't know enough about. Very insular program, keep recruiting ex debaters to coach. Not very familiar with contacts there
 

Wallaby97

Stan Wickham (3)
Grammar - probably the favourites for a few years to come still. In particular, a year 9 student by the name of Robert Loughley (unsure of spelling?) is debating in their 2nd grade squad and looks like an absolute gun. Future Jimmy STratton?

I haven't seen Loughley (I think you have the correct spelling) speak in person, but adjudicators/debaters I've spoken to say he is really impressive, especially for his age. I believe he was moved up to the seconds for the GPS season (Grammar wouldn't let him speak in Seniors for ISDA) and has been doing really well since then. It sounds like he'll definitely be in the Firsts next year, and could well go for state. I think those predicting a decline in Grammar debating over the next few years could be surprised.
 
F

footy_talent_recognition

Guest
Results from newington:

Beat King's in the 1s
Lost in the 2s
 
D

DjDownunder

Guest
I haven't heard much of this Loughley fellow, but anyway.

It seems SGS have started using team lines, probably as a joke, but I have heard that the English team employed them at worlds. It is likely a stupid protest more than an actual change in style but I'm not entirely sure
 

Paul Williams

Bob McCowan (2)
Any feedback on the kings v Newington debate? I was out at grammar v shore. What a cracker! Will be good to see how the season finishes up.
 

MttyJac

Frank Row (1)
I've been a big fan of this forum over the last couple of months. But I reckon you're stuck in the past if you're still thinking about GPS victors - can't get past Grammar right now. The Rep teams are more needing of discussion. Having adjudicated a fair number of GPS rounds this season I reckon I can come forward with some predictions:

1sts: Wolfe (G), Rees (N), Stratton (G)
2nds: Babidge (G), Pope (J), King (R)
3rds: O'Callaghan (K), Donohoe (R), John (E)

and some 4th speakers from the excess schools.

I reckon some of the Joeys boys are unlucky to be left out of this - they're a strong side, but their results haven't been good enough to warrant a big showing. The 2nds selections are probably the most controversial here. Not sure who'll get a berth at 4th. I'll be interested to see how these shape up. Does anyone know when the rep teams are announced?
 

Sam Wallace

Frank Row (1)
I've been a big fan of this forum over the last couple of months. But I reckon you're stuck in the past if you're still thinking about GPS victors - can't get past Grammar right now. The Rep teams are more needing of discussion. Having adjudicated a fair number of GPS rounds this season I reckon I can come forward with some predictions:

1sts: Wolfe (G), Rees (N), Stratton (G)
2nds: Babidge (G), Pope (J), King (R)
3rds: O'Callaghan (K), Donohoe (R), John (E)

and some 4th speakers from the excess schools.

I reckon some of the Joeys boys are unlucky to be left out of this - they're a strong side, but their results haven't been good enough to warrant a big showing. The 2nds selections are probably the most controversial here. Not sure who'll get a berth at 4th. I'll be interested to see how these shape up. Does anyone know when the rep teams are announced?


The omission of Wallace from Newington is frankly laughable.
 

OneFourBrutus

Frank Row (1)
Just on the GPS competition: I was talking to a coach at Kings and I can honestly say that their so called "renaissance" is untrue. Their senior teams are both quite weak - the 1sts lost to High at UNSW, and their 2nds have gotten some VERY lucky decisions. In the junior competitions, their is a complete lack of depth in particular in the B's squads. I don't buy any of this.


Yes I completely agree, their whole approach to GPS debating is pathetic and lacking depth and thus, competitiveness. They simply do not have the edge that some schools, such as Scot's, do, because they don't focus completely on winning like them. It would appear that their open and encouraging method of recruiting, which has increased interest in debating at the school exponentially so I hear, has watered thin their talent. How terrible this approach to giving everyone a fair go - perhaps they should follow the example of schools such as Scot's and start offering scholarships for those with talent, but for debating instead as it would appear this is the only way to be competitive in GPS competitions. Indeed, their 2nds must be incredibly lucky to have won all but one of their debates so that they topping their competition, and without these boys being on debating scholarships, from what I hear, is simply outrageous. Clearly, this highlights how the King's 'renaissance' is clearly untrue, and that they are performing much worse than past years of consistently doing poorly. Thus, it must be pure luck and no talent that has led to this appearance of improvement.
 
F

footy_talent_recognition

Guest
I've been a big fan of this forum over the last couple of months. But I reckon you're stuck in the past if you're still thinking about GPS victors - can't get past Grammar right now. The Rep teams are more needing of discussion. Having adjudicated a fair number of GPS rounds this season I reckon I can come forward with some predictions:

1sts: Wolfe (G), Rees (N), Stratton (G)
2nds: Babidge (G), Pope (J), King (R)
3rds: O'Callaghan (K), Donohoe (R), John (E)


Fairly reasonable assessment. I do feel O'Callaghan could find himself in the 2nds if he keeps up his performances. I've been able to watch him once and he lit the stage on fire.

Results from riverview?
 

$100_Panadol

Bob McCowan (2)
Just on the GPS competition: I was talking to a coach at Kings and I can honestly say that their so called "renaissance" is untrue. Their senior teams are both quite weak - the 1sts lost to High at UNSW, and their 2nds have gotten some VERY lucky decisions. In the junior competitions, their is a complete lack of depth in particular in the B's squads. I don't buy any of this.


I am guessing you are a scott's affiliate? Interesting opinion on kings. Always good to hear from different sources. My sources at king's inform me that their year 11 cohort has won the GPS twice. They have reached the latter stages of the ISDA semi-finals 5 years successive. Their Year 12s are also rather rubbish making ISDA semi finals only 6 years straight. Complete lack of depth in the opens. Do not expect them to go too far. As for the UNSW comp, you are quite right, they were comprehensively outdone in the grand final against high 1sts. Interestingly, it was their seconds who made the finals not the firsts. Although the 1s were undefeated in the comp, but simply didn't qualify based on average speaker points for the grand final. From memory, 4 out of the top 8 speakers on the day were from kings. However, again you could be right, stats don't always speak the truth. I was basing my predictions for kings off facts and figures, but seeing has you have spoken to a coach at king's you must be right. They are rubbish. Their seconds have received 4 lucky decisions consecutive. Winning at a rate of close to 90% in these two year groups they are obviously a rubbish opens squad
 

DRH

Bob McCowan (2)
Kings seconds looked a bit of a joke against Grammar, quite lucky to win in a very messy debate. What about Pacino for GPS by the way?
As for discussions of 'renaissances', Grammar will always remain the school to beat while they continue to have the ingrained debating culture that they do. Coaching can only go so far, as can be seen from Scots, but as long as they have people like Elle Jones and Nick Chung coaching the Opens, and similarly solid coaches right down through the Juniors, no other school will match their remarkable spell of dominance without a change in their cultural approach to debating. Kings, in my opinion, just haven't achieved that, and when you compare their overall results to Grammar - only really competitive in one year group, it would seem, unlike the dominance right through the age groups from Grammar - you can see that this probably won't last.
 

MttyJac

Frank Row (1)
Kings 1sts are 2 wins' from 5 debates. Certainly their performance could improve from here and they have had a rough draw. But 2 Wins does not a renaissance make.

The 2nds do look for more solid though - do they keep their year 11s in the 2nds comp? Sometimes results are out of whack in the 2nds because inconsistently some schools put good year 11s into the 1sts (weakening their 2nds, e.g. Newington), and other schools keep their good year 11s in the 2nd division (for team unity etc eg High). So it can be an inaccurate way of prediction of will happen in the 1s the next year because some of year 11's best speakers are sucked out of the division
 

MttyJac

Frank Row (1)
If anyone needs proof of this, here are the GPS 2nds results: http://www.gpsdebating.org/cupholders. You can see Grammar has held the cup a few times. (To be expected given their dominance of the 1sts). But SBHS has also taken a few without being able to convert into the Rutledge. They keep their best year 11 debaters in 2nd division while grammar pushes them up to 1sts - so their teams pick up top-notch 2nd grade results before being taken apart when they come up against their grade's best speakers the next year in the 1sts
 

Marcus

Bob McCowan (2)
Reps Team Update

CAS teams have been selected and many predictions have proved accurate - good work tipsters!

Firsts - Robbie, Damien, Liam
Seconds - Kevin Kim, Laura, Lorenzo

Congratulations, looking forward to more updates as the rest of the teams become known.
 

MttyJac

Frank Row (1)
Reps Team Update

CAS teams have been selected and many predictions have proved accurate - good work tipsters!

Firsts - Robbie, Damien, Liam
Seconds - Kevin Kim, Laura, Lorenzo

Congratulations, looking forward to more updates as the rest of the teams become known.


Any news on the CAS 3rds?

Meanwhile the CHS squad is yet to be chosen but it looks like the teams will be quite imbalanced - a talented, experienced top few debaters whose 2nds will let them down
 

Ontheside

Allen Oxlade (6)
Marcus said:
Reps Team Update

CAS teams have been selected and many predictions have proved accurate - good work tipsters!

Firsts - Robbie, Damien, Liam
Seconds - Kevin Kim, Laura, Lorenzo

Congratulations, looking forward to more updates as the rest of the teams become known.​

Any news on the CAS 3rds?

3rd III
Viran Weeresekara ( B )
Johnson Man ( K )
Hal Crichton-Standish ( C )
Xavier ( A ) 4th
 
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