New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

[Dan54]

Thanks for that Franklind, I found it good. Had the pleasure of listening to Foxy speak at a Qlds supporters do about 5-6 years back, mates were seriously impressed that after the lunch Foxy wandered over and had a beer with us for about an hour and discussed something I had asked and just generally talk about the game. As you said a knowledgeable and likeable bugger!
Real interesting to hear about Shags coaching/selecting style, pretty much confirms other stuff I have heard about his player managment.

 

[A mutterer]

Really interesting read particularly in comparison with the Aussie approach.

 

[qwerty51]

Really interesting read particularly in comparison with the Aussie approach.

Really, what do you think is done differently?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Probably a lot as a result of a far more competitive market place the Wallabies and Super Rugby teams operate in.

 

[A mutterer]

Really, what do you think is done differently?

a couple of things really stood out, particularly given their continued ascendancy and the massive gap demonstrated by the thrashing

1. establishing and maintaining the right culture - pride in the jersey driving personal performance, we are well off the pace here
2. player selection and management, e.g. core skills primacy in shaping decisions
3. imho i think the focus on the mental components has created a hugely resilient side who can maintain for longer periods of time and we are well off here as well

 

[Train Without a Station]

Imagine if you were an employer in a market with no competition for employees. Establishing the right culture would be much easier when employees have no choice but to stay and buy into it.

 

[wamberal]

Amazing post, FrankLind. I hope all Australian coaches and players read it.

One additional bit of information, I have no idea how solid it is. But some years ago I was flying back to Tonga from Auckland and my next door neighbour on the flight was a Kiwi rugby coach. One of the things that he told me has stuck in my memory ever since. He said that every current All Black has the phone number of several former All Blacks who played in their position, and who are available to have a confidential chat if there are any technical or other issues that the player is struggling with.

 

[wamberal]

Imagine if you were an employer in a market with no competition for employees. Establishing the right culture would be much easier when employees have no choice but to stay and buy into it.

I doubt that it would be a very healthy culture, unless the employer is a saint.

 

[boyo]

He said that every current All Black has the phone number of several former All Blacks who played in their position, and who are available to have a confidential chat if there are any technical or other issues that the player is struggling with.

Good idea 99.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Good idea 99.

hehe, as they repair to their nearest NZRFUCOSC (NZRFU Cone of Silence Centre)

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

hehe, as they repair to their nearest NZRFUCOSC (NZRFU Cone of Silence Centre)

So if were (in) Control, who does that make KAOS?

 

[Dan54]

Imagine if you were an employer in a market with no competition for employees. Establishing the right culture would be much easier when employees have no choice but to stay and buy into it.

Do you really think think the NZRU has no competition for the players Train?? I can assure you that Aus league/ NH rugby are as big a threat to NZ rugby as they are to Australia. NZ actually lose quite a large number of school leavers to League, as it is considered that there is more chance of making a living at league in Aus than union in NZ. I think what most don't realise is that ITM cup players are except for super players ,are all only really amateur players and hold down jobs too. I agree we have no AFL, but I think NZRU are to be congratulated for having a system that seems to work quite well, rather than just saying "woe is me we have all this competition so we can't compete".

 

[USARugger]

Do you really think think the NZRU has no competition for the players Train?? I can assure you that Aus league/ NH rugby are as big a threat to NZ rugby as they are to Australia. NZ actually lose quite a large number of school leavers to League, as it is considered that there is more chance of making a living at league in Aus than union in NZ. I think what most don't realise is that ITM cup players are except for super players ,are all only really amateur players and hold down jobs too. I agree we have no AFL, but I think NZRU are to be congratulated for having a system that seems to work quite well, rather than just saying "woe is me we have all this competition so we can't compete".

His point still holds some gravity when you consider the absolute ocean of difference in how rugby is portrayed by the media and society at large in Australia and New Zealand.

This undoubtedly plays an enormous role in the lives and decision-making of these young men. It's obviously anecdotal but I've seen this point reinforced in countless interviews with young players or documents about the All Blacks and rugby in New Zealand.

You've got a huge number of boys who grow up literally wanting to sacrifice, bleed, sweat or whatever else it takes to pull on the black jersey. You even view your jerseys in a different way based on the recent insight @Franklind shared from the Fern.

The relative lack of competition from other codes for the heart of the nation and the unique relationship between the society and sport that this creates is a big factor in all of that.

There are infinitely many companies and organizations that could learn from the NZRFU and the way they operate. This doesn't change the fact that the NZRFU aren't just a big fish swimming in a small pond, they are the pond.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Do you really think think the NZRU has no competition for the players Train?? I can assure you that Aus league/ NH rugby are as big a threat to NZ rugby as they are to Australia. NZ actually lose quite a large number of school leavers to League, as it is considered that there is more chance of making a living at league in Aus than union in NZ. I think what most don't realise is that ITM cup players are except for super players ,are all only really amateur players and hold down jobs too. I agree we have no AFL, but I think NZRU are to be congratulated for having a system that seems to work quite well, rather than just saying "woe is me we have all this competition so we can't compete".

I'm not knocking the NZRU. Plenty or organisation (especially sporting ones) wouldn't have been able to create what they have because of the fact there will always been a level of success and complacency and malaise would set it.

My comment is more aimed at those people knocking the ARU for not being as successful.

In NZ there is almost no competition for players unless they are willing to go overseas. In Australia there is considerably more options for players and may grow up playing league and union. It's hard to push a hard line on players when they actually have greater options outside rugby just in their own backyard. Then on top of that there is the overseas threat. Defection to league is pretty low in all blacks. There's been a history of it for wallabies. Your biggest threat is losing players who are coming from juniors into professionalism, but even then, you have more opportunity at home than the competition does.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^Pretty sure this is not the thread for this, but:
I see Oz rugby as vitally interested in what happens in NZ. I don't think it would be in our medium to long term interests to see the AB's lose the lustre in the northern hemisphere.
I've read 2 things recently about NZ rugby that together cause me concern:
the first was the long post quoted from the silver fern by Franklind about a Grant Fox address. It showed me there was far less money in the game as a whole in NZ than I had assumed. As a true aussie I'd always thought that one of the reasons the ABs were perennially better than us was money. As usual it turns out that its the Kiwi nature that it is the more important factor.
And then this AM I read Hugh Jarse's post in the school sporting scholarships thread - most of you are too sensible to get involved in the "Hotel California" thread - so its worth bringing it to your attention: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...orting-scholarships.5780/page-263#post-656957
Here is a direct link to the article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11316804

I think this is a worry for rugby on both sides of the ditch.

 

[Pfitzy]

Been saying for years - the NZ market is maximised, and growth is very difficult to come by.

NZ Rugby overall grows incrementally as sponsors are attracted and competing with each other over the "brand". While they love to knock us in general at the game itself, they know that their destiny, and ability to maintain a high level in the game on a financial basis, is tied to foreign powers. There was an article not long ago, during the Super expansion talks, that stated unequivocally that Australia had the biggest growth potential in the region if only we could eke out some of league's territory.

That is why they're happy to go along with any changes to the Super Rugby situation; upsetting the apple cart will have dire repercussions for the game at ALL levels in NZ.

They're also suffering the grassroots issues we are to a degree: people have less time on weekends for rugby due to work or family commitments. Money is creating haves and have-nots. The personal injury situation turns some people off the game as they can't go to work on Monday.

 

[terry j]

B The personal injury situation turns some people off the game as they can't go to work on Monday.

Surely, in NZ, "Any boss who sacks a worker for that is a bum"? (apologies to hawke)

 

[Dan54]

Take my word for it terry, if that is case there are a few bums in NZ, I knew a few players that got told give it up or find other work!

 

[Dan54]

I'm not knocking the NZRU. Plenty or organisation (especially sporting ones) wouldn't have been able to create what they have because of the fact there will always been a level of success and complacency and malaise would set it.

My comment is more aimed at those people knocking the ARU for not being as successful.

.

Didn't think you were knocking anyone Train, I was kind of responding because I get impression that people think NZRU just wander around doing nothing and everyone flocks to game, I think they work bloody hard to keep rugby No 1, league was very strong 80s and 90s in NZ, and even now I know of a college that our erstwhile fellow poster went to (Stand up Waiopehu) that cannot field a 1st 15 because of numbers of boys lost to both bigger schools and league! Also a hell of a lot of young fellas in NZ actually make a career out of rugby to help them trip around the world, I personally had a team I coached as schoolboys that 4 players went and played semi pro rugby in NH, in England,spain and Denmark of all places, also got a nephew good enough to be in Manawatu development team, went to England for a couple of years and is seriously thinking about a couple more years in Italy or Spain.
I also think ARU work their butt of to get players, but tend to think it easy for us all to say, hell league takes our players, if we as fans believe this we'll never win the battle for players!

 

[da_grubster]

Didn't think you were knocking anyone Train, I was kind of responding because I get impression that people think NZRU just wander around doing nothing and everyone flocks to game, I think they work bloody hard to keep rugby No 1, league was very strong 80s and 90s in NZ, and even now I know of a college that our erstwhile fellow poster went to (Stand up Waiopehu) that cannot field a 1st 15 because of numbers of boys lost to both bigger schools and league! Also a hell of a lot of young fellas in NZ actually make a career out of rugby to help them trip around the world, I personally had a team I coached as schoolboys that 4 players went and played semi pro rugby in NH, in England,spain and Denmark of all places, also got a nephew good enough to be in Manawatu development team, went to England for a couple of years and is seriously thinking about a couple more years in Italy or Spain.
I also think ARU work their butt of to get players, but tend to think it easy for us all to say, hell league takes our players, if we as fans believe this we'll never win the battle for players!

Danny, as a former waiopehu 1st xv man, I find it hard to believe they do not field a side any more. We had 7-8 teams in my day. I believe it has something to do with the current headmaster and has a poor attitude to sport/rugby. I heard this in the lead up to the reunion this year.

A school that produces Carlos spencer and plenty of good players can't field a team 20 years later? Very sad.

How tricks mate? How's Mike settling in, working yet?

He could have been the answer for the eyeties at halfback mate or at 1st drop for the cricket team!!

Cheers
G