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The Climate Change Thread

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Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
I'm not disagreeing that the cost is going to be higher to kick off a renewables revolution. But the price of NOT doing it can't be measured in dollars. Coal will run out. Environment will not tolerate this forever.
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I would suggest it is more about Aus being totally insignificant in the scheme of things and whatever we do means stuff all without the rest of the world kicking in.

So whilst being the leader in this and doing lots of stuff may make some of us sleep better at night, it will also increase business costs and make us less competitive.

I can see us being a laggard on this with lots of show and very little actual results & pain until we have to.

Face it, Howard met the Aus's Kyoto requirements through not chopping down trees and the US is kicking goals in reducing emissions because they found a lot of natural gas, with both "wins" being accidental benefits of other policies.
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
fatprop said:
I would suggest it is more about Aus being totally insignificant in the scheme of things and whatever we do means stuff all without the rest of the world kicking in.

So whilst being the leader in this and doing lots of stuff may make some of us sleep better at night, it will also increase business costs and make us less competitive.

I can see us being a laggard on this with lots of show and very little actual results & pain until we have to.

Face it, Howard met the Aus's Kyoto requirements through not chopping down trees and the US is kicking goals in reducing emissions because they found a lot of natural gas, with both "wins" being accidental benefits of other policies.
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I agree but the investment in renewables R&D will be a massive boost in years to come.

I'm not saying we stop mining coal, because that is stupid given export demand for it. I'm just saying we shouldn't be building more power infrastructure when the trend is away from big power grids and the coal stations that promote them.
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
We swap subsides for a defunct car manufacturing industry and say lets do it all over again with wind and solar.
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Pfitzy said:
I agree but the investment in renewables R&D will be a massive boost in years to come.

I'm not saying we stop mining coal, because that is stupid given export demand for it. I'm just saying we shouldn't be building more power infrastructure when the trend is away from big power grids and the coal stations that promote them.
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We aren't building new stuff, the challenge is that we are over supplied in power now, if we needed more a renewable makes sense.

But we are in the position of over supply so it comes down to replacing the old stuff.

I would expect plans are being developed to dump the dirtiest, most expensive plants, but not immediately
 
Mr Doug

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
Braveheart81 said:
Did I say anything like that Mr Doug?

I just said that in general, hot days where demand spikes are also very sunny days.

It's not like there are many 40 degree days where it is overcast and gloomy.

Unsurprisingly, solar panel uptake is strongest in states where peak demand aligns with hot weather rather than cold weather. The coldest state, Tasmania is largely powered by renewables in the form of hydro-electric.
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I wasn't picking on you Breaveheart81, just using a favourite quote repeated by all but one of the solar-industry sales reps (around 30) who came knocking at my front door over the last 5 years. They proudly claim that living on the Gold Coast with so many hot days is a plus, because "the hotter it gets, the more electricity you can generate", to power air conditioners. That's when I tell them that we don't have any air conditioners in our house. (We open the windows and doors if it gets too hot)!
I'll take this opportunity to point out that my belief in "global cooling brought on by "Solar Hibernation", is currently looking healthier than yours re "Global Warming".

Examples: As you know, Solar Hibenation is claimed to be accompanied by an increase in volcanic eruptions and major earthquakes. Currently there is one volcano erupting near Rabaul, and one getting ready to let go in Iceland. There were two major earthquakes recently on the same day, one in the Napper Valley, California, the other in South America.
You will have seen the signs in your local super market, advising that the bananas are discoloured (greyish) and spotted due to "unseasonably cold weather" in North Queensland. Apparently, the 'eating' quality hasn't been affected. And finally, farmers in south-east Australia have suffered "hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage", to crops such as wheat, triticale, (a hybrid of wheat and rye), barley, lupins, etc, (according to the Dept. of Primary Industry), following "unusually severe frosts for a prolonged period of time", throughout NSW, Victoria and South Australia. This takes me back to a comment I made to you months ago, that I'm sure all my farmer friends would rather be faced with "minutely higher temperatures" than long periods of severe frosts!

Re Tasmania, isn't that the state where many folks still heat their homes with wood-burning fireplaces, and appliances, and yes, in the days before Dr Bob Brown and his economic terrorists, Governments were actually allowed to build dams and install Hydro-Electric power stations, just like the ones that supply power to my daughter's home in Whistler, BC, Canada.

Braveheart81, I'm looking forward to the day when I travel to Sydney during the Rugby season and you get to buy me a beer at (say) the Panthers' League Club, Penrith, as we watch children ice-skating on the frozen Nepean River!!
 
Mr Doug

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
Runner said:
Fusion. I stand corrected.
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Runner, isn't "fussion" what the Kiwis do off the beach, or in a tinnie, often accompanied by a rod in hand, and a stubbie of amber fluid?!

BTY, you would have come across the revelation of the BoM doctoring (a.k.a. "homogenising") their temperature readings in last week's Weekend Australian. In today's edition, Bill Leak captures the "con" beautifully, in his cartoon on "Commentary", page 23, titled "Avagoodweekend"!!
I'm sure you and many others on this thread will enjoy it, I know I did.
 
Mr Doug

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
boyo said:
I wasn't aware of "electricity from windmills".

Do tell.
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Allow me to educate you boyo.
When you climb a windmill with a bag of tools and a container of oil to do an 'oil change' on the gearbox, and you have forgotten to pull the lever that puts the windmill "out of gear", and half way through the service, a wind gust comes up, and the 'tail' of the mill swings around and knocks you off the platform to the ground below, the resulting "sparks that fly" after you land in a crumpled heap on the ground, are known as "electricity"!!
So, in an obtuse way, "formerflanker" was correct!!
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
fatprop said:
We aren't building new stuff, the challenge is that we are over supplied in power now, if we needed more a renewable makes sense.

But we are in the position of over supply so it comes down to replacing the old stuff.

I would expect plans are being developed to dump the dirtiest, most expensive plants, but not immediately
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We can export the coal for profit, and NOT burn it as renewables fill that hole. Then dirty old coal just does the night shift, right?
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Burn it, sell it, either way is the same outcome in the end

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
V

ValPint

Frank Row (1)
Mr Doug said:
You keep making that sort of comment.

Where we're seeing the huge impact from solar is in small scale PV systems on a house by house basis. This is already having a significant impact on peak demand because almost always, peak demand is matched with lots of sunshine.

As battery systems improve, it will become possible for these households to store electricity and use it when they need it. We may see small scale suburban storage systems where power can be saved and shared on a neighbourhood basis.

I agree that large scale solar panels manufacturer are unlikely to become the norm anytime soon.

Gas fired plants could start replacing coal fired power stations quite soon though for baseload generation.Braveheart81, I assume you would be aware of the fact that PV cell performance will max out at around 25c. "The hotter it gets, the better the performance" is false.
On a very hot day, production from the PV cells on your roof can drop by as much as 20%! We should all stick to the facts.
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Well I think solar power is the future.. We need to sort out our power crisis and solar energy is best way to do it..
 
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