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Federal Coalition Government 2013-?

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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
The government were playing up the IS issue long before the ASIO boss made the call to heighten the lever or even dropped the hint it might happen.

The more more this gets tossed around the media cycle the more focus it detracts from domestic issues and are you seriously saying the government is not milking this for all it is worth? They and the PM need a hit in popularity and this issue is just the right medicine for them.

I don't doubt they are genuine in supporting the government but it is in Labors political interest to be very publicly supportive. Abbott is trying to look like a statesman and Shorten is playing the same tune to nullify it. The Labor Senator did not help this cause.

National security is generally dealt with behind closed doors but it is very convenient for the government to keep this churning in the public realm.

TEAM AUSTRALIA is classic wedge politics.


I don't think they'll get the uplift they expect though, too many people remember the lies of Howard's WMD to justify the invasion of Iraq.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
I don't think they'll get the uplift they expect though, too many people remember the lies of Howard's WMD to justify the invasion of Iraq.


But I don't think there is any doubt that IS are rampant fuckheads and need stopping.

Was mildly amused to see Morrison on the news today, down at the park celebrating all the multiculturalism. There were some African dudes performing behind a roped off area, and I could nearly hear him thinking "Perfect, but could we make the rope a chainlink fence?"

;)

It was great to see Muslims down there too, united with other religions across all cultures, to decry extremism in all its forms. Just lately I've been seeing a few too many of those "Patriot Defence League" shares popping up in my FB feed, from people I thought I knew.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
But I don't think there is any doubt that IS are rampant fuckheads and need stopping.

Yeah, the issue is what we can do about it

The current media campaign reminds me of those bad actions movies where the the baddies do horrible things so the goodies can do equally bad things as retaliation

One of the things Abbott said about Syria "how do you pick between two baddies" is the same here.

The new coalition is trying to find and fund a local opposition that aren't total arseholes and won't use the training and supplied weapons to kill us later.

I don't think we can.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
One of the things Abbott said about Syria "how do you pick between two baddies" is the same here.

The new coalition is trying to find and fund a local opposition that aren't total arseholes and won't use the training and supplied weapons to kill us later.

I don't think we can.


If this whole charade was actually about stopping IS then the "coalition" would be working with the Syrian government, but of course IS is the by-product of the US and its allies arming terrorist groups to destabilise the region and bring down Assad (amongst other goals).................

IS has now given the US the pretext it wanted to re-enter the Middle East.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
If this whole charade was actually about stopping IS then the "coalition" would be working with the Syrian government, but of course IS is the by-product of the US and its allies arming terrorist groups to destabilise the region and bring down Assad (amongst other goals).......

IS has now given the US the pretext it wanted to re-enter the Middle East.


I am not sure that Obama wants back in
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
I am not sure that Obama wants back in

As they were saying in the paper today (FitzSimons quoted some bloke from The Age), why is it serious only now, after 3 Western journos got executed?

Three months ago it was thousands of people who were either minority religions like the Yazidis, non-conforming Muslims, or anyone else who disagrees with them.

I'm with the author of that particular piece: let the fucking locals take care of it. What are IS going to do about recruitment when its not white foreigners bombing the shit out of them with drones?


 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Three months ago it was thousands of people who were either minority religions like the Yazidis, non-conforming Muslims, or anyone else who disagrees with them.


And for the few years prior to that they were slaughtering people in Syria, and getting selfies with John McCain...
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Now we have a troop build up in the UAE. Tony, Joe, Martius and Co, who is paying for this in times of a proclaimed budget emergency? How are we paying for this and will it burden future generations with massive debt? Remember the good old days (like only about six months ago) when this was a massive concern to the nation.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
The amount of defence spending Johnny Howard did in his time, as well as the contracts agreed to by various Military units, has assured Defence of budget to carry out such operations. Particularly after the wind-down in Iraq/Afghanistan and the outsourcing of a lot of functions to civilian contractors.

The old mantra of "if you don't spend it, you lose it" covers pretty much every government department, including defense.

And they have NO trouble spending it.
 

redstragic

Alan Cameron (40)
The amount of defence spending Johnny Howard did in his time, as well as the contracts agreed to by various Military units, has assured Defence of budget to carry out such operations. Particularly after the wind-down in Iraq/Afghanistan and the outsourcing of a lot of functions to civilian contractors.

The old mantra of "if you don't spend it, you lose it" covers pretty much every government department, including defense.
Makes sense to go to war when you put it that way. Waste of money otherwise and a threat to ongoing defence spending not to fight a war.

I not having a shot at you Pfitzy as I am sure you are probably right, i am having a shot at just how easy the obvious logic can be drawn out. We'll be there a very long time I fear.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Yeah no worries. The guys who will be sent, particularly spec ops, are actually glad of the chance to use their training operationally. If a hostage situation should ever occur on our shores (and its unlikely it would due to our smallish population and superior surveillance), the CT blokes would have a very high chance of a successful outcome because they train like bastards and have first-hand experience of killing people. You can't put a price on that, as cold-blooded as it sounds.

The real threat of protracted engagement comes about if Team 'Murica and Team Straya keep doing what they're doing i.e. announcing everything to the press and public, then putting on staged buildups and coalition meetings before entering the arse-kicking phase.

Once IS operatives get a feel for the vibe, they start infiltrating back into the population, hide their black flags, and turn the propaganda effort into footage of innocents being killed with drones etc. etc.

A couple of military experts (ones I'm inclined to believe) have blamed the US military for the failure of the hostage rescue situations, but announcing they'd fly drones and start S&R for various POI in theatre, who were known hostages. IS wised up to it and moved them on a regular basis, denying Delta or SAS any chance of executing a mission that would not only save Western lives, but dent the current aura of invincibility IS are projecting.

Right now, the CIA and US High Command have every piece of information about the ground conflict they need. The USA has the logistics to get pretty much anything they want into anywhere they want in the world within 24 hours.

This time there is no ground to win; no dictator to overthrow, and no country to pacify. Syria is a fucking basket case the US (and us, by extension) wants none of, and they've already told Iraq to sort their own shit out by withdrawing. But they're not going to stand by and let thousands of people die (and thousands of US combat losses mean nothing) after decades in the area.

This time, the Kurds are fighting them, and creating a conventional conflict on the ground to put up some visible borders.

The operation should be simple: Pick the best and bravest, then get in, absolutely skull-fuck the opposition back to the stone age, and get out again.

Send Iraq the bill.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
I should add: no press or publicity for this strike either. There is too much fucking PC bullshit around what the military do.

Go clean up the mess, then explain yourself; its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

You can't have a secret if you tell everyone, and the extremists have CNN too.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
This time there is no ground to win; no dictator to overthrow, and no country to pacify. Syria is a fucking basket case the US (and us, by extension) wants none of, and they've already told Iraq to sort their own shit out by withdrawing. But they're not going to stand by and let thousands of people die (and thousands of US combat losses mean nothing) after decades in the area.


But the US and their allies have been involved in Syria for years, working with opposition forces to create that basket case............. funding, arming, and training rebel groups that gave birth to IS.........

Just last year Obama unsuccessfully sought approval from Congress to launch air strikes in Syria...........
 

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Perhaps the Iraq situation in the last couple of years is the result of Obama who wanted all troops out so they go and don't leave a structure to help. He was meeting his political aims rather than what the generals and people who where experts knew.
 

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Perhaps if Obama had not removed the troops in haste to meet a political ideological agenda as he was warned by the generals he may not have to do what is coming.

History is interesting like that. A memeber of Congress who controlled funds to the French in the Vietnam era cut it off so the French were defeated. A number of years later he committed more combat troops that any previous president. One LBJ.
 
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