The Climate Change Thread
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Mr Doug
Dick Tooth (41)
Yes Gnostic, it must be remembered that Dr Karl is, (or was) a GP, and is now primarily an "entertainer"! He did, however say on ABC 612 Brisbane radio, in one of his regular weekly science segments with presenter, Steve Austin, that "sea levels will rise by up to 5 metres by 2100", then he added "or even by 6 metres".
I was a fan of Dr Karl's when he wrote many humorous articles in 4WD magazines, many years ago. Then he formed the Global Warming Party, stood for Parliament, and got his backside spanked.
Since then, I have regarded Dr Karl as nothing more than a "curiosity" with a very fertile and quick, mind!
Are you aware of the fact that when planet Earth was in fact warming, (up until 15-16 years ago), that Mars, and (I think it was also Pluto, or maybe it was Neptune), were also warming. A science presenter said words to the effect that "so you can see that man isn't causing the Earth to heat up"! It was assumed that this was being caused by the distance of the planets from the sun. This was stated on a science segment on ABC Northern Rivers (NSW) radio one April morning at around 5:15 am, during the reign of KRudd, however, the segment had been "cleansed", either by Rudd Govt. officials, or ABC by staff, so that when it was re-modeled on ABC 612 radio, Brisbane, a vfew hours later, (with the same science presenter, a different station presenter, and different text), it was stated that "but we shouldn't assume that it wasn't anything to do with man-made Global Warming"!
So Gnostic, you can see why I'm a sceptic!
Speaking of Dr Karl, you will recall the recent 'protest' at Bentley in the Lismore district of NSW, by 'ferels' and local cattle farmers. That's the one where hundreds of people entered a farmer's property without permission, concreted steel spikes into his access road, and welded his gates together, to prevent a drilling rig from drilling exploratory CSG holes, and preventing the farmer from getting access to parts of his property, and his livestock.
The protesting farmers were local beef and dairy cattle producers, who objected to the CSG drilling because of the chance of releasing methane into the water aquifers and into the atmosphere . I took the time to refer to comments made by Dr Karl in the past, as to the amount of methane gas produced by a heifer/cow/steer/bull. It was up to 280 litres of methane gas each (and every) day!! You can see why I regard those farmers as "hypocrites", given that they each would own in excess of 200 head!!
Anyway Gnostic, I joined GAGR because of my love of Rugby.
Debating members on Global Warming/Climate Change is like debating people who are trying to convince me that League is a much better game than Rugby, it aint gonna happen!! Enjoy Saturday's match.
Mr Doug
Dick Tooth (41)
boyo
Mark Ella (57)
No the fucking wink does not make it all right! there is absolutely no tolerance for anything like that in the political forum. Consider yourself on a final warning.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
So besides all that - the point I was trying to make is that you're treading on much the same ground that the antivax crowd does. "Show me the proof that I can believe" without actually having the understanding that a climatologist gains through years of study.
"Humans lived for years without vaccines!" say they, ignoring the fact that humans only two hundred years ago also had infant mortality rates we would find completely unacceptable today. Diseases that were commonplace are now effectively eradicated.
Yes, there are a lot of factors in global climate change. And yes, the instruments to measure temperature across history are looking at the very pointy end of man's existence (which is microscopic in the timescale of the planet's current Cenozoic era), and haven't always had the accuracy of what we've had today.
I generally ignore the news, particularly when they start talking about "more Class 5 storms this decade than last century", because not everything last century got reported in mass media (or didn't happen anywhere that important people cared about). They like a good scare, the journos.
But when it comes right down to it, 90% of the people - a very large portion of whom have nothing to gain from the planet going to hell in a handbasket environmentally - who know their shit tell me that the planet is going to hell in a handbasket.
That's good enough for me.
"Humans lived for years without vaccines!" say they, ignoring the fact that humans only two hundred years ago also had infant mortality rates we would find completely unacceptable today. Diseases that were commonplace are now effectively eradicated.
Yes, there are a lot of factors in global climate change. And yes, the instruments to measure temperature across history are looking at the very pointy end of man's existence (which is microscopic in the timescale of the planet's current Cenozoic era), and haven't always had the accuracy of what we've had today.
I generally ignore the news, particularly when they start talking about "more Class 5 storms this decade than last century", because not everything last century got reported in mass media (or didn't happen anywhere that important people cared about). They like a good scare, the journos.
But when it comes right down to it, 90% of the people - a very large portion of whom have nothing to gain from the planet going to hell in a handbasket environmentally - who know their shit tell me that the planet is going to hell in a handbasket.
That's good enough for me.
Mr Doug
Dick Tooth (41)
Point taken Cyclo, and may I say, I much prefer your method of admonishment!
Having never met Pfitzy, my comment was more directed at the statement than the man. I shall confine myself to Rugby-only issues in future to avoid becoming unhealthily anxious over other members' comments!! Cheers.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
wilful
Larry Dwyer (12)
Sorry Pfitzy, you got that arse-about, it's non-science.
Really, it always comes back to this - a couple of (generally elderly gents) non-experts and a couple of massive oil companies think they know more about basic science than every single reputable scientific institution in the world. CSIRO, BoM, RS, AAS, NAS etc etc versus Exxon, the Heartland Institute and Andrew Bolt.
Really, it always comes back to this - a couple of (generally elderly gents) non-experts and a couple of massive oil companies think they know more about basic science than every single reputable scientific institution in the world. CSIRO, BoM, RS, AAS, NAS etc etc versus Exxon, the Heartland Institute and Andrew Bolt.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Yeah I was speaking about the side of the argument confirmed using the scientific method
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
Yeah I was speaking about the side of the argument confirmed using the scientific method
If the warmists had really observed the scientific method, they wouldn't have ignored the concept of falsifiability. That is, the 17-year hiatus in global warming that wasn't predicted by the climate models has shown that CAGW is wrong. Observation trumps the theoretical models.
boyo
Mark Ella (57)
I'm not surprised.
IMO he's a short-term man, never thinks long-term.
It's very telling that he'll be at the UN General Assembly to speak at the Security Council, but not be at the UN climate summit.
Climate Summit: European Union surprised Tony Abbott will not attend high level climate talks
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...prised-by-australia27s-un-summit-snub/5745908
IMO he's a short-term man, never thinks long-term.
It's very telling that he'll be at the UN General Assembly to speak at the Security Council, but not be at the UN climate summit.
Climate Summit: European Union surprised Tony Abbott will not attend high level climate talks
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...prised-by-australia27s-un-summit-snub/5745908
wilful
Larry Dwyer (12)
Except we know it isn't true. Firstly, there has been warming these past 17 years (and it's always from 1998 with you guys, never from 1997, why is that?), the hottest instrumental years ever recorded have been this century (2010 and 2005). Secondly, we have an excellent (measured) idea where the heat is going - into the oceans. And we know it can't keep going in to there without eventual consequences.
Murphy 2009
Nucitelli et al. 2012
Unless you have better science than the experts? Please either quote it, or stop this line of argument. Isn't that a fair request? If you can't agree to that, where's your shame?
God, why do I bother. I'm not going to change your mind, it is impenetrable to facts...
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
^^^^^^
Here are some sources that inform my opinion:
· RSS satellite data shows no warming from 1996 to now; 18 years.
· UAH satellite figures show the hottest year was 1998 and the warming trend stopped around 2000.
· Land thermometers—GISS, NCDC, and HadCrut- do show a continuing warming trend but significant doubts exist about their corrupted data.
· Ocean temperatures can only be adequately measured by the Argo buoy network (Wikipedia). Argo buoys duck dive down to 700m, recording temperatures, then come up and radio back the results. There are 3,000 of them floating around all the world’s oceans. The Argos buoys have only been operational since the end of 2003. Since then they show a slight cooling. Source Link.
· The earth was just as warm 1000 years ago. The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) existed, and was similar to current temperatures. Ljungqvist’s comprehensive studies (2012) suggest current temperatures are not unusual.
There is enough legitimate data around to tell me that the theory of CAGW can be disproved. Climate change is chaotic, natural, and very minimally influenced by people.
Here are some sources that inform my opinion:
· RSS satellite data shows no warming from 1996 to now; 18 years.
· UAH satellite figures show the hottest year was 1998 and the warming trend stopped around 2000.
· Land thermometers—GISS, NCDC, and HadCrut- do show a continuing warming trend but significant doubts exist about their corrupted data.
· Ocean temperatures can only be adequately measured by the Argo buoy network (Wikipedia). Argo buoys duck dive down to 700m, recording temperatures, then come up and radio back the results. There are 3,000 of them floating around all the world’s oceans. The Argos buoys have only been operational since the end of 2003. Since then they show a slight cooling. Source Link.
· The earth was just as warm 1000 years ago. The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) existed, and was similar to current temperatures. Ljungqvist’s comprehensive studies (2012) suggest current temperatures are not unusual.
There is enough legitimate data around to tell me that the theory of CAGW can be disproved. Climate change is chaotic, natural, and very minimally influenced by people.
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
Other world leaders who "never think long term":
Chinese President Xi Jinping and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi have also indicated they likely won’t attend the summit.
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has indicated he will not be attending.
Even Angela Merkel, President of über green Germany, will not be attending the UN climate summit.
The first one:
The MWP one is bunk too. It's already warmer now than it was back then and even for 2000 years in the past.
link
The MWP one is bunk too. It's already warmer now than it was back then and even for 2000 years in the past.
link
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
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