Aussie Player Exodus

[Riviera274]

The Foreign Legions according to the NZ Herald:
Full article here:-> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11328570

Possible French Foreign Legion
Uini Atonio (New Zealand)
François van der Merwe (South Africa)
Steffon Armitage (England)
Alex Tulou (New Zealand)
Rory Kockott (South Africa)
Brock James (Australia)
Blair Connor (Australia)
Noa Nakaitaci (Fiji)
David Smith (Samoa)
Scott Spedding (Australia)
English Foreign Legion
Manu Tuilagi (Samoa)
Billy Vunipola (Tonga/Australia)
Mako Vunipola (Tonga/New Zealand)
Brad Barritt (South Africa)
Michael Paterson (New Zealand)
Possible Irish Foreign Legion
Jared Payne (New Zealand)
Bundee Aki (New Zealand)
Tom McCartney (New Zealand)
Rodney Ah-Yoy (New Zealand)
Miah Nikora (New Zealand)
Possible Scottish Foreign Legion
Josh Strauss (South Africa).

Many,many more.

Perhaps a third of the players in teams in the English competition are now from the South.

Just a few ' new Englanders'

Dylan Hartley(Northampton via NZ)
Thomas Waldron(Exeter via NZ)
Dan Cole ( NZ?)
Mouritz Botha (SA)
Matt Stevens (SA)
Riki Flutey(NZ)
Lesley Vainikolo
Tipsy Ojo
UFO Monye
Ayoola Erinlie
Alex Corbisiero
Hendrix Fourier

And that's just the England side in recent years.

Watching England we play a game....

It's called: Spot the Toby

 

[Slim 293]

Actually not just the French league but the Heineken European.populated by the world's best.he is far better than when last in Australia as proven by the frantic bidding for his services.more than Dan. Carter..more than Morne Steyn..by some considerable margin

Just not the best players from the top 3 ranked nations.............

And who would've thought that Giteau, playing well in one of the top Euro teams, would receive higher offers than a player that's spent most of the past 3 years injured......... and, uh, Morne Steyn?

 

[Riviera274]

Many,many more.

Perhaps a third of the players in teams in the English competition are now from the South.

Just a few ' new Englanders'

Dylan Hartley(Northampton via NZ)
Thomas Waldron(Exeter via NZ)
Dan Cole ( NZ?)
Mouritz Botha (SA)
Matt Stevens (SA)
Riki Flutey(NZ)
Lesley Vainikolo
Tipsy Ojo
UFO Monye
Ayoola Erinlie
Alex Corbisiero
Hendrix Fourier

And that's just the England side in recent years.

Watching England we play a game..

It's called: Spot the Toby

Correction....and apologies for Dan Cole

He's a true blue born in Leicester

 

[cyclopath]

Ah,the signs of weak argument; switch the subject to the trivial and inconsequential rather than lose.

Stand up and argue like a man,dear boy.

If you insist.
Your gibberish about Giteau being "better" than Carter or Wilkinson because of the money he might be paid is facile, based on flawed logic that the amount a wealthy team-owner will pay for a player who can help his club relates to the amount paid to another player who has different International playing requirements and injury issues for starters. Giteau will be of more "value" to a club team, not least of all for his excellent utility value (which neither of the others bring). You'd be in a small group trying to argue Giteau was anywhere near Wilkinson or Carter as a Test player - those two were at the peak in their chosen position.

 

[Train Without a Station]

A player's "value" is relative to who is available at the time and how many clubs are looking.

If a cashed up club is looking for a 10 and there are others looking and the 5th choice 10 is the only one available at the time, he will likely command more than a year later if no teams are looking and the top 2 10's are off contract.

To place the ultimate value of a players ability on their contract is foolish. Plenty of shit players have signed good contracts over the years.

 

[Bardon]

The argument of who is better at fly-half between Wilkinson or Giteau is easily settled by looking at who played 10 when they took to the pitch together, Wilkinson.

Giteau is a vastly superior player to the guy who left Australia all those years ago. Yes it helps to be behind a test class pack, but it also helps a player's development to be surrounded by a test class set of backs. I'm sure he learned a hell of a lot playing alongside Wilkinson for a number of seasons.

I think he's good enough to get into the Aus team. However I think those who say he shouldn't be considered are absolutely correct.

Australia will never be able to keep all of their best players in Aus but the ARU imposed ban on those playing outside of Aus at leasts keeps some of their best players at home. Remove that and what's to stop a mass exodus? You just have to look at South Africa for a recent example of what will happen.

As to the guy from the NZ Herald I might have listened to the guy's point if he wasn't just out to scaremonger. Also I like how he couldn't be bothered looking up the heritage of the players playing in the Guinness premiership and just threw in a list of capped England players of foreign origin in a list of "Potential Switchers".

He makes the point that "...it feels like international jerseys are almost being given away." Then goes on to list players who could switch nations. Why not name the players who you think have created this feeling rather than players who might or might not be capped by these countries?

Maybe he had the feeling; did a little research; then found there weren't that many players so threw the potential switchers together with the actual switchers?

If he was serious about raising this issue rather than having a cheap dig at the NH Unions he could have pointed out how most of the Aus Rugby community had been counting down to Henry Speight's eligibility for Australia.

If he's so worked up about the issue why not mention a guy who would be the embodiment of what you're arguing against? We're not talking about a potential switcher here, this is someone who's going to pull on the Wobs jersey once he's fit again. You can't get any more current an example that Speight.

If you want to genuinely highlight an issue with the game don't make it a NH v SH thing. Point out all instances of it happening and then set out how you think it should be handled.

Can anyone who's read the article tell me how Gregor Paul would like to see this issue handled? Should player's never switch allegiance? If they should be allowed how should they qualify for their new country?

One positive thing to come out of this article will be a confidence boost for Josh Strauss when he learns that he single handedly constitutes a legion.

 

[Highlander35]

Finished the Edinbokke.

Heritage
James Hilterbrand (Australia)
Simon Bergham (New Zealand)
Allan Dell (South Africa)
Ollie Atkins (Australia)
Alex Toolis (Australia)
Ben Toolis (Australia)
Grayson Hart (New Zealand)
Nick McLennan (New Zealand)
Grieg Tonks (England)

Residence
Wicus Blaauw (South Africa)*
WP Nel (South Africa)
Anton Bresler (South Africa)*
Mike Coman (New Zealand)*
Cornell Du Preez (South Africa)*
Carl Bezuidenhout (South Africa)*
Sam Beard (New Zealand)*
Phil Burleigh (New Zealand)*
Tim Visser (Netherlands)

Despite the huge numbers, at least compared to Glasgow, come RWC time there's only a few who are in with a shot.

Visser is a certainty, Hart is 4th Choice scrummie for right now. Tonks could go if he usurps Heathcote, Nel has to climb up from about 5th choice, the Toolis twins are for the future, Hilterbrand and Atkins ar way down the order.

Not many heritage or residence players exist for scotland outside Glasgow and Edinburgh, at least since the international retirements of Dan Parks and Nathan Hines. London Irish duo Kieran Low (England) and Blair Cowan (New Zealand, cousin of Pek) were handed international caps against the Canucks and Eagles, but otherwise that's all I can currently see.

* Won't qualify by RWC2015

 

[Gnostic]

I would also add the point that the oligarchs that own most of French rugby do things at whim without really rational reasoning at times. I'm not saying that Giteau isn't good but the hyperbole doesn't match. I read one article recently saying that Brock James was regarded as the most valuable player in the French competition, just not in money terms. Interesting and even more so when you consider a few years ago I think it was Chris Malone who was most valuable again not in money terms. Now consider that both players and add in Dan Parkes of Scotland all left Australia to get professional starts because the skill sets they delivered are not sought after for Super Rugby. They do however excel in the NH. I do not question the skills or worth of these players, just comparing skill sets and what allows one to excel in the NH is sometimes different to what succeeds in the south.

 

[Slim 293]

Two words: Rocky Elsom

 

[fatprop]

Two words: Rocky Elsom

The Elsom who left Aus as a test quality backrower or the busted flush who returned?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[fatprop]

Finished the Edinbokke.

Heritage
James Hilterbrand (Australia)
Simon Bergham (New Zealand)
Allan Dell (South Africa)
Ollie Atkins (Australia)
Alex Toolis (Australia)
Ben Toolis (Australia)
Grayson Hart (New Zealand)
Nick McLennan (New Zealand)
Grieg Tonks (England)

Residence
Wicus Blaauw (South Africa)*
WP Nel (South Africa)
Anton Bresler (South Africa)*
Mike Coman (New Zealand)*
Cornell Du Preez (South Africa)*
Carl Bezuidenhout (South Africa)*
Sam Beard (New Zealand)*
Phil Burleigh (New Zealand)*
Tim Visser (Netherlands)

that list isn't going to instil fear into many

 

[Highlander35]

that list isn't going to instil fear into many

Was sort of the point.

We're not really stealing/recruiting stars or first XV players, its more depth.

With a handful of exceptions, Its cash and some game time which are the incentives to play in Scotland, not the promise of an international jersey.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Ah, Scotland - Land of the Brave

Fucking pommies have done 'em again (in the vote)

 

[daz]

His form in Australia in his last few seasons was declining being a disruptive influence off-field, and running everywhere but forward like a demented ball-hogging crab on-field. I wouldn't have him in this team

Note how a bit of descriptive language can make all the difference to your posts, and really get your message across? Lazy writing, Mr Reg. 4/10. See me after class.

 

[Biffo]

Note how a bit of descriptive language can make all the difference to your posts, and really get your message across? Lazy writing, Mr Reg. 4/10. See me after class.

excellent, Sir.
high class English usage.
f*#@ing great assessment of the player.

 

[Biffo]

is anyone seriously suggesting that the Giteau 1914 Model (wasn't he known as "Shiteau" for quite a while?) is superior to To'omua, Beale, Godwin or Lilo as a 12 or to Foley, To'omua, Beale, Lilo, Cooper as a 10?

perhaps he could challenge White as fourth string 9 behind Phipps, Genia and Burgo?

 

[Lindommer]

You're being very unkind there to young White in the 9 stakes, Biffo.

 

[Biffo]

ok. Giteau might challenge for the fifth spot behind Phipps, Genia, White and Burgo.

 

[Riviera274]

The argument of who is better at fly-half between Wilkinson or Giteau is easily settled by looking at who played 10 when they took to the pitch together, Wilkinson.

Giteau is a vastly superior player to the guy who left Australia all those years ago. Yes it helps to be behind a test class pack, but it also helps a player's development to be surrounded by a test class set of backs. I'm sure he learned a hell of a lot playing alongside Wilkinson for a number of seasons.

I think he's good enough to get into the Aus team. However I think those who say he shouldn't be considered are absolutely correct.

Australia will never be able to keep all of their best players in Aus but the ARU imposed ban on those playing outside of Aus at leasts keeps some of their best players at home. Remove that and what's to stop a mass exodus? You just have to look at South Africa for a recent example of what will happen.

As to the guy from the NZ Herald I might have listened to the guy's point if he wasn't just out to scaremonger. Also I like how he couldn't be bothered looking up the heritage of the players playing in the Guinness premiership and just threw in a list of capped England players of foreign origin in a list of "Potential Switchers".

He makes the point that ".it feels like international jerseys are almost being given away." Then goes on to list players who could switch nations. Why not name the players who you think have created this feeling rather than players who might or might not be capped by these countries?

Maybe he had the feeling; did a little research; then found there weren't that many players so threw the potential switchers together with the actual switchers?

If he was serious about raising this issue rather than having a cheap dig at the NH Unions he could have pointed out how most of the Aus Rugby community had been counting down to Henry Speight's eligibility for Australia.

If he's so worked up about the issue why not mention a guy who would be the embodiment of what you're arguing against? We're not talking about a potential switcher here, this is someone who's going to pull on the Wobs jersey once he's fit again. You can't get any more current an example that Speight.

If you want to genuinely highlight an issue with the game don't make it a NH v SH thing. Point out all instances of it happening and then set out how you think it should be handled.

Can anyone who's read the article tell me how Gregor Paul would like to see this issue handled? Should player's never switch allegiance? If they should be allowed how should they qualify for their new country?

One positive thing to come out of this article will be a confidence boost for Josh Strauss when he learns that he single handedly constitutes a legion.

We'll argued"

 

[Riviera274]

If you insist.
Your gibberish about Giteau being "better" than Carter or Wilkinson because of the money he might be paid is facile, based on flawed logic that the amount a wealthy team-owner will pay for a player who can help his club relates to the amount paid to another player who has different International playing requirements and injury issues for starters. Giteau will be of more "value" to a club team, not least of all for his excellent utility value (which neither of the others bring). You'd be in a small group trying to argue Giteau was anywhere near Wilkinson or Carter as a Test player - those two were at the peak in their chosen position.

You do get excited...and obviously don't see much European rugby.

The comments of leading ex internationals here clearly shows that they rate
Giteau much higher than any current Australian 10, because, like me, they see him performing at the highest level week in week out against sides full of experienced internationals.

Giteau was ignored by Deans and so eventually left. Since then he has become
Twice as good and can play 10 or 12 better than anyone in Australia..which is the point I have made. As by far the smallest of the 3 SH sides in player resources we have to follow Argentina who recognise that their players in Europe cannot be left out if they are to match NZ and SA