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Australian Schoolboys 2014

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ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
Just watching the replay of the NZ Baabaas vs OZ and was a pretty entertaining game. Lots of endeavour shown from both sides. And a bit of feeling out there too.

The NZ B's 13, 14 and 15 looked like a trio of big units.
 

Monty Python

Ted Fahey (11)
[snip] . . . . the fact that there was no intent or malice in it (the boy was pretty much thrown in the air by a hard tackle and fell to ground badly - looked awful, and in no way excusing it, but if he landed on his bum rather than his melon, would the penalty have been a red or a yellow I wonder?)....

Ok. Just managed to see a few replays of the tackle from different angles on YouTube. He'll be very lucky to play on Saturday. I still say there would have been no intent, but it was the sort of tackle you do need to make a stand on. I can only put it down to adrenaline.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ok. Just managed to see a few replays of the tackle from different angles on YouTube. He'll be very lucky to play on Saturday. I still say there would have been no intent, but it was the sort of tackle you do need to make a stand on. I can only put it down to adrenaline.
It was pointless.
He'd already passed the ball.
Some pretty ordinary defence after he departed, many of the misses being one on one so no real excuse that we were a man down.
If NZB have a bloke who is 6'9" in the old money how tall are the NZA locks?
 

Monty Python

Ted Fahey (11)
It was pointless.
He'd already passed the ball.
Some pretty ordinary defence after he departed, many of the misses being one on one so no real excuse that we were a man down.
If NZB have a bloke who is 6'9" in the old money how tall are the NZA locks?
Lineouts will be interesting to see . . . . .
 

Sideline Eye

Darby Loudon (17)
The Australian Schools team will have their proverbial backs against the wall against this strong NZ Schools line-up.

Agreed. However, with Australia's 'A' side on the park (ie, not their experimental and reserves side) one would think they'll have a red hot go. Despite a few bad one-on-one missed tackles, I thought NZ should have beaten Aust by much more with such a massive advantage all match - the Aust boys did very well considering.

The game Aust v Fiji on Friday was much more clinical with pretty much no missed tackles and a much more clinical approach. For those who didn't see it, we should regard that game as something to draw hope from.

Watch out for Rieko Ioane of Auckland Grammar [snip]. He captained the side against Fiji today and scored a strong double in the process.

Thought I saw the hooker run out first with the ball, and assumed he was Captain for NZ Schoolboys yesterday?!
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
^^^^ And IMHO the G&GR report is the better of the two by a huge margin.

An excellently crafted report, as always, from the ever dependable @Lee Grant.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Either way the match against NZ will be a cracker! The OZ boys will be under no illusion with what to expect from their NZ counterparts.

Besides, there is no better mind-set than to go into a game as the 'under-dog'. Furthermore the expectations that have been created for this NZ team will no doubt add pressure to those that are already weighing upon them.

It might just be the advantage that the OZ boys need!
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Disappointing that Jackson-Hope got himself sent off in the first two minutes. That completely killed the game for us. I thought the team played pretty well to be in contention for most of the match. 15 v 15 that would have most likely been a close game.

Goddard was a clear standout for Australia. That kid could be phenomenal.

I thought our winger, Sepesa Loga-Tarogi was also really good.

Summerhayes had plenty of good involvements but certainly plays like a 'notta'. His best position seems to be 6 (which is where he normally plays).

Our props look likely in open play but they really need to work on their handling and ball security.
 

elementfreak

Trevor Allan (34)
who isn't supporting him. I thought its a mandatory 1 week ..if he doesn't play on Saturday, Aus have 1 specialist 10 in the squad. I feel sorry for JJH, and there was no drive down in the tackle, but seriously if my son was on the end of it, I wouldn't be too happy at all, and 1 week seems reasonable.

1 week for that tackle?! He deserves a long sit down of at least 6-8 weeks IMO.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
1 week for that tackle?! He deserves a long sit down of at least 6-8 weeks IMO.

What's he being suspended from though?

I'd have thought that 1 week is reasonable because there's only one more game to miss.

What else would he be being suspended from? The season is over and there isn't a tour to the UK this year is there?
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
What's he being suspended from though?

I'd have thought that 1 week is reasonable because there's only one more game to miss.

What else would he be being suspended from? The season is over and there isn't a tour to the UK this year is there?


What ever his next 6-8 games are....for example if a Wallaby is suspended in the June series for 6-8 games he is suspended for the next 6-8 games he is involved in....so misses S15 games and not just test matches.

So if JJH is suspended for more than 1 game he will be stood down from any club/20s/etc games he is intending to play.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
A bloke was red carded earlier this year in Canberra lower grade footy. Judiciary determined that a 58 match (IIRC) ban was suitable for the offence. 58 matches turns out to be effectively a 5 year ban.

Sydney Juniors have their U13's and above that are red carded for a mid range or high range offence attend Judiciary to account for their actions. Low range offence is an automatic 1 week suspension. In the younger age groups (U10-U12), the competition manager may decide to refer the offender to judiciary, but there is an automatic suspension of 1 week for the first offence.

Sydney Schools are not as formal from what I can gather, but there is usually a mandatory 1 week stand down for a Red Card imposed by the individual schools Master in Charge of Sport (or equivalent title). Longer sentences are imposed at the discretion of the MIC Sport depending on the nature of the "offence".
The CAS rugby website tells us that the CAS "Judiciary" is to all intents and purposes left up to the Headmasters of the naughty boys to determine punishment. (http://www.cas.nsw.edu.au/code-of-conduct/)

"In the event of a player, or athlete being sent-off during a CAS fixture, it is the responsibility of that boy’s Headmaster at his discretion to determine the penalty. It is generally understood among Headmasters, however, that the boy will serve at least one week’s suspension from participating in the CAS competition."

Similar for ISA Schools
"Coaches must notify their Sports Convenor if any student from a team is sent off. The student(s) must be supervised by a school official after being dismissed from the field, and disciplined subsequently according to the custom and practice of the member school. It is the general rule that students will be suspended for at least one game or similar penalty as outlined by the rules for individual sports."
http://www.isa.nsw.edu.au/2007ISACodeOfConduct-Final-Public.pdf

In most rugby, bans carry forward to the next season. So if the judiciary (not sure who has jurisdiction, but there will probably be one appointed) determine that he deserves a 3 match suspension, then the first two of Colts games are on the sidelines (assuming that the "Test" is game 1). If the lad is in an ACT Summer Colts 7's programme (if such a beast exists), then one assumes that the ban could be served on two rounds of that competition, freeing him up to play Colts trials next season.

What else would he be suspended from? All rugby of any nature, that is conducted under ARU or their affiliates sanction until the suspension is completed. IIRC, I think that there is some agreement between the various peak sporting bodies that bans in one sport apply to all sports in Australia.



He is a young kid who is probably feeling lower than a robbers dog at the moment, but he still needs to realise that there are consequences to his actions. The ignominy of being sent off in such a high profile and televised game, as well as any contrition and remorse he has, along with previous discipline record will be considered as mitigating factors by the judiciary when determining what sanction to apply to the lad if they find that he is guilty of the alleged charges. Those factors should not be considered as determining whether he is guilty or innocent of the alleged offence.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
What ever his next 6-8 games are..for example if a Wallaby is suspended in the June series for 6-8 games he is suspended for the next 6-8 games he is involved in..so misses S15 games and not just test matches.

So if JJH is suspended for more than 1 game he will be stood down from any club/20s/etc games he is intending to play.

He's not a Wallaby though. I just don't think it's that simple saying what he's suspended from.

If they make the suspension longer, invariably they will find a couple of trial games and a 7s tournament or something that he was going to play in that will count as his suspension.

I could be completely wrong and they'll give him a massive suspension but it would seem to me that it's unlikely that he'll be sitting out the start of the 2015 Colts season or wherever he's likely to play next year.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
There are plenty of proper, and bush, lawyers floating around rugby circles at all levels who would be right across the sorts of issues you raise @Braveheart.

Summer 7's does complicate things, as does pre-season and carnival style or pick-up representative matches.

Coming back to our 58 match suspended lad from Wests ACT, could he claim credits against that suspension for missing 10 matches of summer 7's and pre-season trials outside of the regular seasons?

With Rugby 7's, what constitutes a "match"? Is it one 14 minute game of Rugby 7's, or a tournament day (4 or 5 14 minute games), or a tournament (many 7's tournaments are two day affairs).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Coming back to our 58 match suspended lad from Wests ACT, could he claim credits against that suspension for missing 10 matches of summer 7's and pre-season trials outside of the regular seasons?

With Rugby 7's, what constitutes a "match"? Is it one 14 minute game of Rugby 7's, or a tournament day (4 or 5 14 minute games), or a tournament (many 7's tournaments are two day affairs).

My guess is that player would have been given a return date as to when they could start playing.

Maybe they'll do the same with JJH.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
They used to suspend you to a date in union.
I feel sorry for the kid but 1 week send the wrong message. This was not a good tackle that went unaccountably wrong: it was bad to begin with.
These offenses all have "entry points" which the presumptive minimum suspension and I would think 1 week is well below the odds. I have a vague recollection that 3 is the entry point.
Sigg got several weeks for a far less dangerous tackle a couple of years ago after a lengthy and very persuasive hearing.
 
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