Reds 2015

[Train Without a Station]

NOBODY has said that all players follow that path. TWAS you are kidding yourself about me putting players out to pasture too early.

Well I was being deliberately facetious with my comment of Tupou.

But back to the actual point of discussion we are having. The players we lose mid-career are generally the ones that are not making it. Players in their "prime" as wallabies (using the term loosely in some instances) have really been anomalies, not the norm. Generally they have had specific financial motivation too.

What players in their mid-20s have we lost that may be playing? Timani, Douglas, Cummins and Ma'afu. 3 out of them have very specific circumstances that we know of.

We've lost a few who weer either past, or wouldn't get too much change from 30. Giteau, Smith, Mowen, Mitchell, Mumm, Chisholm, Samo, etc. These players will always be lost at the back end of their careers when they sense they may no longer be first choice wallabies, and therefore on a reduced value contract.

And then we've lost a few who have never cracked it before they left in Kimlin, Pyle, Longbottom.

It's not like the floodgates are rushing open on players who would be in the 30, that have been there and therefore can be confident they will remain there. It's a trickle of those players. That's because the teams aren't throwing out million dollar a year contracts to everybody. They are offering that to the very best, but for the rest it's better than Australia, but not stupidly better.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Mate I am just saying that the Goalposts are moving (IMO), and it worries me

 

[Ash]

I reckon three props will be signed:
2 THPs - Faagase and Talaki, but one will be a full squad member, the other WTS
1 LHP - probably WTS, either Paraka or Faeo, but odds on Paraka at this stage

That will give 6 props, likely 4 in the main squad, 2 in the WTS.

Faagase can also play both sides so will round out the squad nicely.

Both Faagase and Talaki were good vs Country, but with Holmes (and Saia) unavailable, the Country scrum was very weak.

Kite looks to have slipped down the pecking order, but Faagase has been scrummaging a lot better than Kite despite being much smaller.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Jeez- in respect of Mr Thor, I really hope they bring him on slowly, teach him, mentor him, instill the culture and the kid becomes a long term option for us. In other words, don't thrpow the bloke to the wolves just because he is talented and big, very big

 

[Train Without a Station]

What are you talking about? Worked out perfectly fine for Rodney Blake.

Oh.

 

[Scrubber2050]

What are you talking about? Worked out perfectly fine for Rodney Blake.

Oh.

You are right, of course but Rodney debut for the Reds in 2005 aged either 21 or 22. Went on to play lots and lots of test matches and last club playing for is the Bowen Mudcrabs...

 

[Jagman]

But seriously:

1. Nathan Sharpe
2. Phil Waugh
3. Tom Carter
4. Stirling Mortlock
5. Adam Frier
6. Al Baxter
7. John Roe
8. David Croft
9. Peter Hynes
10. Matt Hodgson
11. Luke Morahan
12. Ben McCalman
13. Sam Wykes
14. Mitch Inman
15. Tom Kingston
16. Mike Harris
17. Ben Alexander
18. Benn Robinson
19. Jeremy Tilse
20. Dave Dennis
21. Stephen Hoiles
22. Pat McCutcheon
23. Brendan McKibbin
24. Jono Lance
25. Ben Daley
26. Greg Holmes
27. Saia Fainga'a
28. James Hanson
29. James Horwill
30. Beau Robinson
31. Anthony Fainga'a
32. Ben Tapuai
33. Lachie Turner

That's a list of either recently retired, or players whom are still playing and older than Gill but either in the same position in the national pecking order, or at their franchise pecking order. Each and every one of these players could earn more money playing in Europe or Japan. Some could be better players in their style of game than in Super Rugby. Every one is still contracted to a Super Rugby team and has never played overseas since their debut (With the exception of ITM Cup stints whilst contracted to Super Rugby clubs.
Just because there's been high profile departures, doesn't mean it's the path all players follow.

Yes but the top 14 just doubled their broadcasting rights for 2016 and doubled their salary cap. So parameters are shifting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brumby Runner]

But seriously:

1. Nathan Sharpe
2. Phil Waugh
3. Tom Carter
4. Stirling Mortlock
5. Adam Frier
6. Al Baxter
7. John Roe
8. David Croft
9. Peter Hynes
10. Matt Hodgson
11. Luke Morahan
12. Ben McCalman
13. Sam Wykes
14. Mitch Inman
15. Tom Kingston
16. Mike Harris
17. Ben Alexander
18. Benn Robinson
19. Jeremy Tilse
20. Dave Dennis
21. Stephen Hoiles
22. Pat McCutcheon
23. Brendan McKibbin
24. Jono Lance
25. Ben Daley
26. Greg Holmes
27. Saia Fainga'a
28. James Hanson
29. James Horwill
30. Beau Robinson
31. Anthony Fainga'a
32. Ben Tapuai
33. Lachie Turner

That's a list of either recently retired, or players whom are still playing and older than Gill but either in the same position in the national pecking order, or at their franchise pecking order. Each and every one of these players could earn more money playing in Europe or Japan. Some could be better players in their style of game than in Super Rugby. Every one is still contracted to a Super Rugby team and has never played overseas since their debut (With the exception of ITM Cup stints whilst contracted to Super Rugby clubs.

Just because there's been high profile departures, doesn't mean it's the path all players follow.

But any of those from number 10 onwards could potentially head off overseas in the next year or two. And I thought Mike Harris already was overseas.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Well I was being deliberately facetious with my comment of Tupou.

But back to the actual point of discussion we are having. The players we lose mid-career are generally the ones that are not making it. Players in their "prime" as wallabies (using the term loosely in some instances) have really been anomalies, not the norm. Generally they have had specific financial motivation too.

What players in their mid-20s have we lost that may be playing? Timani, Douglas, Cummins and Ma'afu. 3 out of them have very specific circumstances that we know of.

We've lost a few who weer either past, or wouldn't get too much change from 30. Giteau, Smith, Mowen, Mitchell, Mumm, Chisholm, Samo, etc. These players will always be lost at the back end of their careers when they sense they may no longer be first choice wallabies, and therefore on a reduced value contract.

And then we've lost a few who have never cracked it before they left in Kimlin, Pyle, Longbottom.

It's not like the floodgates are rushing open on players who would be in the 30, that have been there and therefore can be confident they will remain there. It's a trickle of those players. That's because the teams aren't throwing out million dollar a year contracts to everybody. They are offering that to the very best, but for the rest it's better than Australia, but not stupidly better.

Hey. What about Dan Palmer?

 

[Train Without a Station]

You are right, of course but Rodney debut for the Reds in 2005 aged either 21 or 22. Went on to play lots and lots of test matches and last club playing for is the Bowen Mudcrabs.

Haha I was joking mate. Rodney's career turned out a disaster

 

[Scrubber2050]

Piss off BR - this gunfight is between Clint and me (Lee)

 

[FilthRugby]

When I watched the game at Ballymore on the weekend, I was shocked by how big the City front row reserves were.

16.Matt Mafi: 178cm and 118kgs
17.David Feao: 179cm and 125kgs
18.Sam Talakai: 183cm and 116kgs

Along with;

Sef Faagase: 185cm and 117kgs
Pettowa Paraka:179cm and 118kgs
Phil Kite: 184cm and 128kgs

In my opinion the Reds have got to try and get some of these players locked in for the LONG TERM future. Yes I love Holmes, but he is only going to be around for a few more years. Thor is going to need a lot of technically development. My biggest concern is these players going to another franchise. It could happen. (Sorry if I'm sounding too cynical)

All 6 of those players are the leaders of their respective clubs. I would love to see all of them get a cap for Qld sometime soon (bit too much to ask). And I understand Talakai is from Sydney, but still, I hope he plays Queensland Premier Rugby next year and then onto higher honours.

 

[Bobby Sands]

What pathway did Sef Faagase come through?

 

[FilthRugby]

Played Premier Rugby at Wests then went to play for University this year.

You might have to ask @SourthernX for more info. That's all I know.

 

[Red Heavy]

Gold Coast colts before wests - and I think sunnybank juniors

 

[reds3]

1. James Slipper
2. Saia Fainga'a
3. Greg Holmes
4. Rob Simmons
5. James Horwill
6. Curtis Browning
7. Liam Gill
8. Jake Schatz
9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Lachlan Turner
12. Ben Tapuai
13. Chris Feauai-Sautia
14. James O'Connor
15. Karmichael Hunt
16. James Hanson
17. Ben Daley
18. Sef Fa'agase
19. Hendrik Tui
20. Beau Robinson
21. Nick Frisby
22. Anthony Fainga'a
23. Samu Kerevi

24. Pettowa Paraka
25. David McDuling
26. Ed O'Donoghue
27. Ed Quirk
28. Duncan Paia'aua
29. Jamie-Jerry Taulagi

30. Chris Kuridrani

 

[Wilson]

I'd be swapping CFS and Kerevi initially, ease the hamstrings back into it and plan to spell Turner regularly so his don't go either.

 

[TheBigDog]

Pending injuries I think you'd be starting Kerevi regardless and see how it goes. The bloke has killed the NRC and looked very good in games last year. IMO the 13 jersey is his to lose next year.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Kerevi is surely our best option. Was exceptional in Super Rugby. Has been the key backline threat and is still dominating NRC.

 

[TheBigDog]

Kerevi isn't exactly a young fella who suddenly came onto the scene either. He's 22 next year and he has been consistently dominating the Brisbane Premier Rugby scene for a number of years now. I have no doubt he's up to the task of being a starting S15 player.