Wallabies v Barbarians - 1/11/14 (Twickenham)

[Viking]

Re comments on expectation being too high for Speight, he is clearly the best winger we have in Australia. Only JOC (James O'Connor) would go close. Even then JOC (James O'Connor) offers something slightly different to Speight. Speight seems to be the first winger we've had since Sailor/Tuquri that is a genuine option to hit the ball into contact. Big and powerful. I reckon having a bloke like him in the backline will have a big impact on our team.
.

Digby was no slouch and served us well for a good while. I take him over sailor any day.

 

[Froggy]

It's interesting everyone is talking about either a Genia/Cooper halves combination or Phipps/Foley.
What I want to see is Phipps/Cooper! Sure it may take a few games to get working, but Cooper's creativity with the extra time and space he would get from Phipps' extra speed at clearance could really work.
Foley has been sound, but to me he's not a natural 10. He has been moulded into a particular 10 that Cheika wanted for the Tahs, but it's barely transferring to test level. Some people are just natural 10's, the greatest example being Mark Ella, and I see Cooper as a natural 10.
Phipps is passing with the speed and urgency (not yet the accuracy) of the great halves of old like Hipwell and Catchpole. Genia is more like so many current halves, with his little step back and one to the side while he looks around before he passes. Also waiting for the forwards to present it to him in a plate, rather than just going in and getting the bloody thing. Sure he defends well and is a great runner, but lacks in the number one quality for a great 9, superior service to his backs.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think Horwill can be s force again. It could take 18 months or more to get that leg up to scratch.

fantastic - we have the bloke during his re-hab period and he hits top form (well, maybe) in England in 18 months

 

[Viking]

fantastic - we have the bloke during his re-hab period and he hits top form (well, maybe) in England in 18 months

Elsom all over again.

 

[Sully]

fantastic - we have the bloke during his re-hab period and he hits top form (well, maybe) in England in 18 months

To be fair he was ours when he got broken.

 

[boyo]

three pages of ramble and Mr Lee reduces the whole argument to three words.
well shrunk, Sir.

here's three more words:
who are they?

may we have some three-word answers, please?

TA specialises in three-word slogans, again and again (another three words).

 

[Quick Hands]

It's interesting everyone is talking about either a Genia/Cooper halves combination or Phipps/Foley.
What I want to see is Phipps/Cooper! Sure it may take a few games to get working, but Cooper's creativity with the extra time and space he would get from Phipps' extra speed at clearance could really work.
Foley has been sound, but to me he's not a natural 10. He has been moulded into a particular 10 that Cheika wanted for the Tahs, but it's barely transferring to test level. Some people are just natural 10's, the greatest example being Mark Ella, and I see Cooper as a natural 10.
Phipps is passing with the speed and urgency (not yet the accuracy) of the great halves of old like Hipwell and Catchpole. Genia is more like so many current halves, with his little step back and one to the side while he looks around before he passes. Also waiting for the forwards to present it to him in a plate, rather than just going in and getting the bloody thing. Sure he defends well and is a great runner, but lacks in the number one quality for a great 9, superior service to his backs.

Phipps' development in the past 12 months has been a revelation. Absolutely sensational game at Suncorp.

 

[Mr Doug]

As this match is not a "Test Match", and players aren't "capped", can I assume that debutantes will still be allocated a "Wallaby number"?
Thus, it is therefore possible for a 'numbered' Wallaby to go through his playing career without ever playing a Test Match, due to injury, misadventure, or simply not being "good enough to play in a Test"?!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As this match is not a "Test Match", and players aren't "capped", can I assume that debutantes will still be allocated a "Wallaby number"?
Thus, it is therefore possible for a 'numbered' Wallaby to go through his playing career without ever playing a Test Match, due to injury, misadventure, or simply not being "good enough to play in a Test"?!

My understanding is that historically a Wallaby was anyone who toured whether they played a test or not and you were not a Wallaby just because you played a domestic test.

 

[Braveheart81]

As this match is not a "Test Match", and players aren't "capped", can I assume that debutantes will still be allocated a "Wallaby number"?
Thus, it is therefore possible for a 'numbered' Wallaby to go through his playing career without ever playing a Test Match, due to injury, misadventure, or simply not being "good enough to play in a Test"?!

The numbers are only allocated for test caps. This game won't see McMahon or Speight get either from what I can work out.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Throw away Cooper then. Unless he's also become a defensive god in his absence.

Fuck this is seriously just a "But hey I know some dudes who tackle - Lilo and To'omua!" push to get your boys into 10 and 12.

Pfitzy - just like the Tahs' supporters on this forum. Push to get the Tahs boys into every disputed position in the team. Except on this occasion I am not pushing for To'omua/Lealiifano at 10/12. I want to see an in-form Cooper returned at 10. Night and day compared with Foley and his defense is stronger as well. I really don't know who should be 12. At the moment I'd go with To'omua, but Christian is pushing him and Godwin has a whole lot of potential. But really, it has to be Tom Carter doesn't it?

 

[cyclopath]

Pfitzy - just like the Tahs' supporters on this forum. Push to get the Tahs boys into every disputed position in the team. Except on this occasion I am not pushing for To'omua/Lealiifano at 10/12. I want to see an in-form Cooper returned at 10. Night and day compared with Foley and his defense is stronger as well. I really don't know who should be 12. At the moment I'd go with To'omua, but Christian is pushing him and Godwin has a whole lot of potential. But really, it has to be Tom Carter doesn't it?

Look, Quade has vastly improved this aspect, I freely admit, but by what metric is he a better defender? Foley stands and defends in the front line mostly, and while he is not a dominant tackler, he does commit to the process. Quade has been scarcely seen in the past year, so I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion.
Maybe you should wait until we get to see what he does at this level before making such bold claims.

 

[PaarlBok]

Thomas du Toit (last year still Paarl Boishaai captain) view on playing with the big men
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Shark-relishes-BaaBaas-stint-20141031

Cape Town - Sharks prop Thomas du Toit is relishing the prospect of representing the Barbarians as they prepare to tackle the Wallabies.

The 19-year-old is one of five South Africans on the Barbarians' bench for the clash at Twickenham on Saturday. Prop Lourens Adriaanse, flank Heinrich Brussow, scrumhalf Sarel Pretorius and flyhalf Marnitz Boshoff are the other South Africans on the bench, while centre Juan de Jongh will start in midfield.

Du Toit said he will try to learn as much as possible from the experience.

"It's absolutely unbelievable to see other players' approach to the game and how different people think about certain things," Du Toit told Netwerk24.

"It expands my perspective about rugby in general and it's a good learning curve for me. I'm thoroughly enjoying it and every moment I feel very privileged to be here."

 

[Pfitzy]

Great idea!

*original quote may have been edited*

 

[Sully]

Look, Quade has vastly improved this aspect, I freely admit, but by what metric is he a better defender? Foley stands and defends in the front line mostly, and while he is not a dominant tackler, he does commit to the process. Quade has been scarcely seen in the past year, so I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion.
Maybe you should wait until we get to see what he does at this level before making such bold claims.

Cooper was leading the defence stats for oz 5/8 before injury. But I don't think he's near that now. Was very gun shy in the NRC.

 

[Biffo]

Look, Quade has vastly improved this aspect, I freely admit, but by what metric is he a better defender? Foley stands and defends in the front line mostly, and while he is not a dominant tackler, he does commit to the process. Quade has been scarcely seen in the past year, so I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion.
Maybe you should wait until we get to see what he does at this level before making such bold claims.

Foley's defence and tackling were very good indeed in the Soup this year.
he had a far better defensive year than QCoop has ever had.
he even topped the tackle count on at least one occasion.

i suspect that some critics of Foley have developed very selective and adjustable memories.

Brumbies supporters should remember Foley's excellent defence very well.
above all there was his wonderful dropping of Tomane with a try-saving tackle and immediate realignment in attack to direct the Tahs like an arrow to the Brumbies' line with himself in possession for the try.

bloke can - and does -tackle.

 

[cyclopath]

Cooper was leading the defence stats for oz 5/8 before injury. But I don't think he's near that now. Was very gun shy in the NRC.

Exactly my point. We've seen very little of him in the past 12 months, so how anyone can draw a conclusion baffles me. He might be a great defender now, but it would be pure hypothesis to claim it as fact. Now if he smashes it on this tour, awesome!

 

[PaarlBok]

Foley's defence and tackling were very good indeed in the Soup this year.
he had a far better defensive year than QCoop has ever had.
he even topped the tackle count on at least one occasion.

i suspect that some critics of Foley have developed very selective and adjustable memories.

Brumbies supporters should remember Foley's excellent defence very well.
above all there was his wonderful dropping of Tomane with a try-saving tackle and immediate realignment in attack to direct the Tahs like an arrow to the Brumbies' line with himself in possession for the try.

bloke can - and does -tackle.

As a Reds supporters you back the wrong player.

 

[cyclopath]

Foley's defence and tackling were very good indeed in the Soup this year.
he had a far better defensive year than QCoop has ever had.
he even topped the tackle count on at least one occasion.

i suspect that some critics of Foley have developed very selective and adjustable memories.

Brumbies supporters should remember Foley's excellent defence very well.
above all there was his wonderful dropping of Tomane with a try-saving tackle and immediate realignment in attack to direct the Tahs like an arrow to the Brumbies' line with himself in possession for the try.

bloke can - and does -tackle.

I reckon Foley is a decent enough defender - he puts himself in the line and makes an effort to make the tackles.
But he is obviously not a hard tackler.
Quade, for reasons beyond his control mostly, has not been required to be a front-line defender, and I don't want to dredge all that up again - McKenzie moved him around for good reason. His ability to make a tackle is not disputed - he clearly can do it, and I am not trying to ignore that.
But he has seldom been a front-line defender, so we just don't know if he can do it that well or not. He's solid enough so why not?
Lack of evidence, not lack of potential.

 

[Sully]

Guys Cooper has defended in the front line since 2012. There is plenty of evidence of his tackling ability if you look. It looked like he was defending on the wing in the City match I saw though. That was about 4 weeks ago. How his shoulder and confidence have gone since then is anyone's guess.