Wallabies v Barbarians - 1/11/14 (Twickenham)

[Biffo]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Cooper operates under Cheika.
I rate Foley for all he brings and I rated Cooper on last years Tour.
Good option to give Genia and Cooper a start for this game.

yes, indeed.
i am greatly looking forward to it and i hope for big things from an improved QCoop.
the average metres between QCoop and the gain line or the contest for the ball will be fascinating.
where he is hidden in defence will be fascinating.
at face value, i can't see how QCoop can play Red-Ball, Pocket-Ball or whatever it's called in a Cheika-coached team, unless he changes dramatically.
he's going to have to play in ways we haven't seen from him for a long time - four or five years - and do it consistently.

i reckon that the basics of the Wallabies' game plan will be pretty much what they put on against the AIGs two weeks ago.
the main changes will be greater physicality, improved lines and better-allocated running tasks for the forwards, better coordination of the attack and greater intelligence and focus by the creative blokes in bringing the running blokes into the attack.
i expect also great emphasis on supporting the ball carrier and dramatic raising of the intensity of kick chases.
TGC will demand that the players improve their commitment and skill by large leaps to enable the "new" (ha ha) plan to work.

 

[cyclopath]

Guys Cooper has defended in the front line since 2012. There is plenty of evidence of his tackling ability if you look. It looked like he was defending on the wing in the City match I saw though. That was about 4 weeks ago. How his shoulder and confidence have gone since then is anyone's guess.

I thought that was what I said.

 

[Biffo]

As a Reds supporters you back the wrong player.

i don't know how to handle that comment
let's just see whether any Reds supporter would allow me into their fold.

never forget the great Groucho Marx line:
"i wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member"

GO TAHS!

 

[Quick Hands]

Cheika picks 3 Waratahs players in the starting 15 and still people can detect a Waratah conspiracy somewhere?

 

[Mr Doug]

The numbers are only allocated for test caps. This game won't see McMahon or Speight get either from what I can work out.

Thanks Braveheart81, I couldn't see the logic in Inside Shoulder's definition, (post #369), which could mean that a player could play any number of tests against the ABs in Australia, yet not be a "Wallaby", whereas another could "tour", play a mid-week match against 'whoever', and become a "Wallaby"!!

 

[Biffo]

there is a New South Wales conspiracy to weaken the other states by making their players do the test matches and risk injury while the Tahs are protected for the Soup.

 

[Highlander35]

ITS A CONSPIRACY!!! CHEIKA IS PART OF THE LIZARD JEWLUMINATY DESIGNED TO SABOTAGE RIGBY IN AUSTRALIA BY CREATING A BIAS FOR NSW PLAYERS EVEN THOUGH NUMERICALLY AND OBJECTIVELY THATS NOT THE CASE!

 

[Tomikin]

ITS A CONSPIRACY!!! CHEIKA IS PART OF THE LIZARD JEWLUMINATY DESIGNED TO SABOTAGE RIGBY IN AUSTRALIA BY CREATING A BIAS FOR NSW PLAYERS EVEN THOUGH NUMERICALLY AND OBJECTIVELY THATS NOT THE CASE!

He hasn't picked a Test team yet just a bunch of guys to run around in the training shirts. I'm sure he will bust out the blue jersey next week .

 

[Brumby Runner]

Look, Quade has vastly improved this aspect, I freely admit, but by what metric is he a better defender? Foley stands and defends in the front line mostly, and while he is not a dominant tackler, he does commit to the process. Quade has been scarcely seen in the past year, so I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion.
Maybe you should wait until we get to see what he does at this level before making such bold claims.

I clearly remember Foley missing tackles in recent test matches including the vital miss that allowed Fekitoa to score the winning try in Bledisloe 3. All the Wallabies had to do to win was to hold the ABs out until the ball went dead for one reason or another, and they managed to do that except for Bernard. And as others have pointed out, Foley often sits in the hooker's spot at lineouts where he is mostly hidden from the need to be effective in defense.

I watched Quade in the NRC game before he was brought into the Wallabies squad. Apart from showing his ability to control the game he didn't go missing, nor was he hidden, in defense. I am not anti-Foley per se as he is streets ahead of that other non-tackler whom Link selected as a 10 in both defense and game management. But Quade at his best is far better than both, and he has shown signs lately that he is regaining his mojo.

Whether we continue to disagree about who is the better defender or not, I will hold to my opinion (which I'm sure you will defend to the death my right to) that Bernard Foley does not defend (ie tackle) nearly as good as is required at test level.

 

[Biffo]

mate, BR, i give up.
i can not compete with a professional government spinner.

 

[Viking]

I'm with BR. I rate QC (Quade Cooper) a better defender then Foley.

 

[Ash]

Foley's defence and tackling were very good indeed in the Soup this year.
he had a far better defensive year than QCoop has ever had.
he even topped the tackle count on at least one occasion.

i suspect that some critics of Foley have developed very selective and adjustable memories.

Brumbies supporters should remember Foley's excellent defence very well.
above all there was his wonderful dropping of Tomane with a try-saving tackle and immediate realignment in attack to direct the Tahs like an arrow to the Brumbies' line with himself in possession for the try.

bloke can - and does -tackle.

I wouldn't be so sure of that, some fuss was made mid season about Cooper being the best defensive 5/8 by tackling stats mid way through the tournament. I don't know how Foley and Cooper defensively relatively ended up by the time Cooper was injured (in the Rebels game, around the last third or so of the tournament), someone who has access to player stats from this year might be able to say.

From what I saw, yes, Cooper was better defensively this year than Foley. Most of the people pushing the Cooper can't defend barrow didn't watch him this year. As @Sully said, Cooper defended at 10 from I thought this year, but it could have been earlier, and he wasn't found out.

Foley's been OK on defence for the Wallabies in my view, he's had some good games and some shockers. Consistency is more Foley's issue.

This stat highlight from ESPN is interesting:

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/the-player-elite-super-rugbye28099s-stat-leaders/

Even though Cooper wasn't in the best of form this year and he had a pack that really struggled, he still had some pretty decent stats.

All this is pretty moot though, Cooper is coming back from injury and may likely be a bit tentative. He put in some decent tackles for City, but he also missed an odd one that he should have made. McKenzie also made Cooper look a little silly at one stage, but that was a bit of brilliance from Jerome McKenzie more than anything else, was beautiful to watch.

 

[Biffo]

Ash, i have already surrendered to the superior power of a Canberra professional spinner.

now i must surrender again - to a QLand government professional spinner

 

[USARugger]

I took a look at all the flyhalves defensive stats around Rd. 7 and Cooper was leading in every category. To'omua had a few defensive shockers early on that skewed stats a bit but even then they were both pulling away as #1 and #2.

 

[matt james]

The debate about Cooper Foley seems to be going around in circles.
If Quade returns to form he will take back the starting jersey.
He finished higher than Foley in this years John Eals medal despite playing half the games - my point being if both are firing he would start.

Interested what peoples opinion on whether Sean McMahon has the size to play at 6 or 8 or the Wallabies. I get the impression that he is built in the mold of Hooper with his only possible deficiency a lack of size.
Does anyone else expect to see half a game for Lilo and half a game for To'omua?

 

[Highlander35]

Jack of all Trades, Master of none.
Sometimes better, than master of one.

 

[Lee Grant]

Sean McMahon will be another Hodgson, hard and tireless, which is not a bad thing especially in Super Rugby.

But to be a test starter he has to acquire those attributes of a specialist openside flanker that Cheika will see value in.

If you have a lineout number 8 like Higginbotham in a starting team you can get away with playing a fellow of McMahon's build on the blindside flank, but it is not an ideal scenario for a coach to deal with.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

The debate about Cooper Foley seems to be going around in circles.

You said it brother. In fact it's in the realm of the absurd.

 

[Quick Hands]

there is a New South Wales conspiracy to weaken the other states by making their players do the test matches and risk injury while the Tahs are protected for the Soup.

We're fiendishly clever aren't we? Unfortunately there are enough Reds and Brumbies supporters who stay up later analysing these things to expose any Waratah conspiracy, anywhere, anytime. Imagine what would happen to Australian rugby if these selfless defenders of all things right slept at night?


One thing that I can let everyone know for certain - Michael Cheika will pick the team most likely to win. His backside is on the line more than the players.

He also possesses a highly sensitive one of these, which came in highly useful in dealing with the NSWRU Board - although he might need to upgrade to a bigger model to deal with the ARU.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We're fiendishly clever aren't we? Unfortunately there are enough Reds and Brumbies supporters who stay up later analysing these things to expose any Waratah conspiracy, anywhere, anytime. Imagine what would happen to Australian rugby if these selfless defenders of all things right slept at night?

The best thing about the NSW conspiracy is that before we, as a state, set ourselves on this course with the Wallabies for the betterment of the Tahs, we enfeebled the minds of the supporters from all the other provinces, including Victoria.
That part of the plan has been completed, as these pages prove, with undreamed of success.