England v Australia

[cyclopath]

Would that be the "Wanting the Wallabies to Win" agenda?

Everyone knows Foley's a nice guy, steady performer but he's not feared by opposition defense coaches like Quade is. We need more blokes that make the other team nervous. Can't just leave it all to TK & Izzy.

Do you really believe this? I don't. I am keen to see Quade start, but this notion is fanciful to me.

 

[Paradox]

England will kick, maul, and scrummage all day. I would if I was them. Perhaps we can criticise them into playing an expansive game aka Campo.

 

[Tangawizi]

Do you really believe this? I don't. I am keen to see Quade start, but this notion is fanciful to me.

It's not fanciful. I think he's shown enough in his 2 cameos to deserve a start. But depends what Cheika thinks around Thursday.

 

[Paradox]

Back 3 will be interesting if TK is out and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) goes to 13. None of Horne, Tomane, Folau, or Speight are noted kickers. KB (Kurtley Beale) might get a crack at 15. Foley can also play there.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Would that be the "Wanting the Wallabies to Win" agenda?

Everyone knows Foley's a nice guy, steady performer but he's not feared by opposition defense coaches like Quade is. We need more blokes that make the other team nervous. Can't just leave it all to TK & Izzy.

Dunno but cruden and sextons poise scares the bejesus out of me. And foley has it too. Seems I might be missing something

 

[cyclopath]

It's not fanciful. I think he's shown enough in his 2 cameos to deserve a start. But depends what Cheika thinks around Thursday.

Did you read what I wrote at all? I was talking about your idea that opposition coaches fear him, not whether he deserves a start, which I agreed he did.

 

[Cardiffblue]

England will kick, maul, and scrummage all day. I would if I was them. Perhaps we can criticise them into playing an expansive game aka Campo.

Nice idea. But I think it's in their dna

 

[Tangawizi]

Did you read what I wrote at all? I was talking about your idea that opposition coaches fear him, not whether he deserves a start, which I agreed he did.

Yes. When he's in form I think he's feared by opposing coaches.
And he's looked in pretty good touch with the limited opportunites he's had lately.

http://m.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wal...-and-one-to-fear/story-e6frf55l-1226526329768

http://m.news24.com/sport24/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Heyneke-Meyer-fears-Quade-Cooper-impact-20130902

 

[Groucho]

Then everything is rosy

No: no one is saying that. we suddenly find ourselves in a development phase too close to the world cup. But we're not in a bad position, despite what some Australian fans might say while bitterly contemplating their post-Ireland cornflakes, or foreigners looking for a cheap rise. The time to troll, Cardiffblue, is after you win.

We'll certainly give it a good shake against England, who played some of their best rugby for a long while against New Zealand, and and are now struggling to gain any momentum.

 

[Ash]

I think fear is an overstatement, but given a choice I'd say most of the NH coaches (particularly Schmidt, Gatland and the Italian and Scottish coaches from last year) would prefer to play against Foley, as Cooper was pretty destructive and had very few errors on last year's EOYT.

That's not taking anything away from Foley, but more from how good Cooper was last year, which was comfortably better than both Foley and Cooper are this year I'd say.

Would Cooper have been better than Foley this year? Completely unknown. Probably wouldn't have kicked all the goals, but probably would've created more chances. So who knows. All academic now as Cooper didn't get much of a chance, and probably won't get one, and overall Foley certainly wasn't fantastic, but certainly wasn't bad either.

What about England? I'm not so worried about the English backs, they've been no great shakes in the last few games. I'm worried that their forwards will make it meaningless what backs we have on the park.

To beat England I think that we will need to be better than we have been in all of our games currently, and I'm not too sure we have that in us right now.

 

[Wilson]

Back 3 will be interesting if TK is out and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) goes to 13. None of Horne, Tomane, Folau, or Speight are noted kickers. KB (Kurtley Beale) might get a crack at 15. Foley can also play there.

The reality is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doesn't kick for the wallabies, so whether or not he can it makes little difference if he's not there (with regards to kicking). While I would've ranked him as the best kicker of the back 3 players we've used this year I don't actually remember him kicking recently, and not anywhere near as much as folau this year, so I'm not really sure he can be called a noted kicker.

 

[BDA]

No you're not. You need to remember that there's an agenda behind at least some of the Foley hate.

Yes. the agenda to win games. I think Foley has had an amazing season, but I'd like to see what Cooper can offer us at 10 before the season ends, especially considering we won 3 out of 4 game with him at 5/8 on the 2013 EOYT.

 

[Brumby Runner]

You make it sound like he is single handed going to lose us the test. He was good enough to be brought on tour so he should be good enough to be given game time. We could have a real gem waiting but we don't have the will to find out. He could easily have been on the bench vs Ireland rather than Beale who should never have been flown over in the first place. That way if he did take his chance, he could have been given the chance to back it up this week. It is only positive to blood the bloke and nothing truly bad can come from it.

On a admin level it is bloody stupid that the union with no money can afford to take token tourists and fly over players (especially ones that have driven a huge wedge between the Wallaby brand) rather than use those already on tour.

If you are a fan of Conrad Smith at 13 (and I think the whole world is) then just maybe the idea of playing Godwin at 13 isn't so crazy. Godwin looks the closest to Smith as a player we have available to us atm and I think he could handle the position if given a chance. I know that Smith has a thousand test caps and Godwin is yet to make his debut. But he looks to have a similar set of skills in that he defends strongly, he takes the ball into contact and frequently either breaks or bends the line or gets an off load away. He also has a fair turn of speed. I can see him being a very good backup to Kuridrani if only he gets the chance to show what he can do.

 

[Marcelo]

We must win this game, no excuses.

We could have won the last two games but we lost both. In Paris, Alexander was wrong. In Dublin, Bernard was wrong, I don't care who is wrong, we can't make mistakes again. We have to defeat the Poms, boldly please!

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

If Aus beat England well here, lets say a 10+ victory, how will this tour be viewed upon as then?

I'd see it in the realms of a quietly good tour, turning over England at HQ a year before the big RWC showdown would give huge confidence to Aus rugby, both the team and fans.

 

[hammertimethere]

I'm less upset about the loss this Monday than I was last Monday, we played better and with more patches of cohesion against the Paddies than against the frogs. Improvement is improvement (though it's still pretty shit that we have to be still in the "coming together" phase this close to a RWC) . Anyway, I'd back us to beat the soap dodgers if we continue to smooth the edges. Our bench pigs and tendency to fade out of games between 55-70mins are obviously real problems that need addressing (more an issue of psychology than physical adjustment I'd say).

Front row picks itself, 2nd row se as but Horwill on the bench for Skelton, back row same to start but Hodgson has to be on the bench surely. Phipps-Cooper-To'omua should be given a crack as a starting combo, with 13 and back 3 dependent on whether TK is ok.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes. the agenda to win games. I think Foley has had an amazing season, but I'd like to see what Cooper can offer us at 10 before the season ends, especially considering we won 3 out of 4 game with him at 5/8 on the 2013 EOYT.

We all would have like to have seen what Cooper could have offered us before the season ended, but unfortunately he spend a significant part of the last part of the season injured. Throw into the mix that a new coach is appointed 2 or 3 days before the EOYT and the fact that there are no midweek games to try players or combinations and you have where we are now. The coach is going to go with the guy who has played solidly to well all year ahead of the guy who has been out injured. I said on the match threads that I thought QC (Quade Cooper) should have got 20 mins at 10 against Wales and France, but it didn't happen. He got a bit of a go this week, but nowhere near enough to form a view to change the starting side. What happened in 2013 is completely irrelevent to 2014 - you only need to look at the half back situation, no-one would have suggested Phipps in 2013, but in 2014 he's the number one by a mile.

The 2015 super season, the 2015 TRC and injuries will decide which of Foley or Cooper starts in RWC 2015, not this tour. I think if you're hoping for the coach to make wholesale changes this week, you might be disappointed.

 

[Tomikin]

You make it sound like he is single handed going to lose us the test. He was good enough to be brought on tour so he should be good enough to be given game time. We could have a real gem waiting but we don't have the will to find out. He could easily have been on the bench vs Ireland rather than Beale who should never have been flown over in the first place. That way if he did take his chance, he could have been given the chance to back it up this week. It is only positive to blood the bloke and nothing truly bad can come from it.

On a admin level it is bloody stupid that the union with no money can afford to take token tourists and fly over players (especially ones that have driven a huge wedge between the Wallaby brand) rather than use those already on tour.

Maybe after training they just don't think.His very good..

 

[Train Without a Station]

What happened in 2013 is completely irrelevent to 2014 - you only need to look at the half back situation, no-one would have suggested Phipps in 2013, but in 2014 he's the number one by a mile.

Hardly.

Nobody would have suggested Phipps because of the form he provided. That has improved though. Just because one player improved from one season to the next, it does not make international form relevant.

Foley has had 8 consecutive tests, and 11 of 13 so far in 2014 to settle into the 10 jersey. Yet a week ago, the best people could say was he should be picked based on his goal kicking success from high percentage attempts.

Quade in 2013 immediately made a massive improvement and impact from his 3rd start. To'omua has looked his best in his test career outside Quade as opposed to his play outside Foley which has been uninspired.

Based on the perseverance with Foley based on a similar error rate to Cooper and minimal match turning involvements and the limited opportunity for Quade Cheika appears to have made up his mind fully from the beginning.

People love to talk about Foley playing a safe game as if he puts in error free performances. No, it's just a limited game still with errors.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hardly.

Nobody would have suggested Phipps because of the form he provided. That has improved though. Just because one player improved from one season to the next, it does not make international form relevant.

Foley has had 8 consecutive tests, and 11 of 13 so far in 2014 to settle into the 10 jersey. Yet a week ago, the best people could say was he should be picked based on his goal kicking success from high percentage attempts.

Quade in 2013 immediately made a massive improvement and impact from his 3rd start. To'omua has looked his best in his test career outside Quade as opposed to his play outside Foley which has been uninspired.

Based on the perseverance with Foley based on a similar error rate to Cooper and minimal match turning involvements and the limited opportunity for Quade Cheika appears to have made up his mind fully from the beginning.

People love to talk about Foley playing a safe game as if he puts in error free performances. No, it's just a limited game still with errors.

There's a chance that Cheika does not think QC (Quade Cooper) is ready for 80 minutes. I don't.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Foley dropped this week - Cheika can see what we all see its a question whether he thinks Foley is to blame, or there's another cause or he doesn't think QC (Quade Cooper) can be exposed yet.
Maybe he learned something with To'omua and he's solved the 12 issue and now he can turn to the 10 issue.
I don't see how you can blame him for sticking with the incumbent: he's not in quite the position Shaggs Hansen was in when he took over. In some ways he needs to isolate the changes to understand their impact.