I guess I'm suggesting that he's not up to it. I don't think we can win a RWC with him. But I, like you, suspect he will get picked as a result of Cheika's challenge of having to do two jobs at the same time.
Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?
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I guess I'm suggesting that he's not up to it. I don't think we can win a RWC with him. But I, like you, suspect he will get picked as a result of Cheika's challenge of having to do two jobs at the same time.
Second person to misread my post, what's common here?
It's not about province, it's about gameplan.
Could totally see that team actually, other than Cooper
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
I think the FIFO statement could be read as carrying an implication that if the talent from other provinces couldn't fit Cheika's game plan then there are Tahs who will. Not sure if that's what you meant but could be the logical conclusion if Reds/Brumbies/Force/Rebels players are seen to not fit with his overall plan.
I really think you may have understated the importance of Potgeiter to the Tahs' game. As good as Kepu (and Palu) is/are ( and I rate Slipper Kepu as equal to any of the front rows going round anywhere atm), they do not carry the ball with the ferocity of Potgeiter, nor as often. He was a revelation this year and I think the most influential player in bringing Cheika's plan to fruition.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
Maybe I'm dead wrong, and I'm trying to divert my gaze from the grassy knoll, but that does seem to lead one to that conclusion.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Speight at 14 and JOC (James O'Connor) subject to proving his form in the Super comp and RC next year. Otherwise I think this is as good as we'll get.
Except you suggest he has months with a fair chunk of them before he gets the wallabies. Meaning the tahs? A fair chunk of them ? That's a pretty big assumption.
Provincialism isn't something that solely exists North of the border.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
True,but nobody does it better!
The FIFO comment is exactly as it states - fit the game plan, or FO, regardless of province, past or perceived genius.
Now, as coach of the Tahs Cheika has had the policy going there on that game plan for 2 years successfully already, so by logic you would expect a base of Tahs.
Also remember the particular type and level of conditioning for this game plan is extreme, not making it easy for other provinces.
As for Potgeiter - yes he was important to the Tahs, but the idea all of Australia can't find one player to fill his role/impact is defeatist.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
Classic provincialism. That's so meta. In the same way that hipsters are into banjos.
T
Train Without a Station
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Preferred? That's a bit understated,
He's shown his colours as not even being interested in looking at anybody else.
I'm purely looking at the number of Tahs in the Wallabies squad right now, and the undeniable fact that Cheika will be coach of both the Tahs and Wallabies next year.
Add to this the Tahs are playing this game plan now, and the players have the conditioning that go with it.
If a player from any other province has the right skill sets applied in the right way and has the conditioning then happy days for them. FIFO
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
hats off to you, Mate
i agree 100 per cent with your two posts.
as you are well aware, i have pleaded on this board for many years for more discussion of how we play the game (test, state, club) and what goes into playing that game and less on which players step left or right or carry their shoulders too high or too low.
i had a very long discussion a month ago with a mate of mine who played out a full professional career as a number 6 with Saracens.
the subject was Michael Cheika's vision for how rugby should be coached and played.
the bloke, in no particular order, made some points and asked some good questions.
- since when has rugby not been about big blokes winning the ball and smashing their way over the advantage line to get the team moving forwards and bring the backs and kickable penalties into play? answer: forever
- what is the essential difference between the Cheika approach and the Dwyer approach? very little in reality
- what is the difference between Cheika's rugby and that of a host of coaches who have big bosher centres and (occasionally a winger) supported by marauding, boshing back rows smashing it up the centre channels? very little, except the number of big blokes smashing it up, where they do it and the speed with which they do it - Cheika has more big boppers and wants them to bosh it all over the paddock at high speed.
curiously, the bloke used precisely the same expression as you. he said that changes in playing patterns, styles, whatever can only succeed if the coach rigorously applies FIFO. he was told that on Day 2 of his long career with Sarries and says Cheika must go the same way.
btw, while i am not partial to picking teams, it's difficult to disagree with your comment.
i want to see clear evidence that Cooper has bought in to the coach's wants and can deliver.
sorry i forgot, but "happy birthday"
i was in hospital and not very mindful of such things.
If we're playing this game plan, Foley's the only 5/8 demonstrated to be able to do it. Will be interested to see if QC (Quade Cooper) can.
As for this notion that QC (Quade Cooper) is a RWC winning 5/8 - he's already played in one, right? And we remember how it worked out?
T
Train Without a Station
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Interesting that's it's most of the Waratahs supporters saying out provincial bias aside, yet accept that their coach is the wallabies coach and will favour Waratahs players due to familiarity and having more time with them.
Sounds an awful lot like what everybody said would be the issue with him filling both roles and being blinded by familiarity.
Sounds an awful lot like what everybody said would be the issue with him filling both roles and being blinded by familiarity.
T
Train Without a Station
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Fuck me Gagger it's rugby, not rocket science. Quade has a better pass, kick, vision and management.
If Cheika can't work with that he should give coaching away.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
If Foley is the only one to get the chance,how does anyone else demonstrate their ability to play to the pattern?
Wrong. You need to stop misquoting.
It's about players bing able to fit a well defined and extreme game plan. There is only one province playing that game plan and Cheika happens to be coaching them too.
Look at Kuridrani - perfect for the game plan and he's starting for the Wallabies. I'd expect him to be next year as well.
I've also been blown away how Slipper has stepped up to it, although looking slightly more ragged. Expect him also to be there.
T
Train Without a Station
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People have just got to understand that Cheika will have more time with the Waratahs so that's the best option regardless of who the best actual players are.
I just got an email of what they are targeting as the wallabies World Cup XV
15. Folau
14. Alofa Alo... Errr Peter Betham
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
12. Kurtley Beale
11. Rob Horne
10. Bernard Foley.
9. Nick Phipps
8. Wycliff Palu
7. Michael Hooper
6. Dave Dennis (c)
5. Jacques Pot.... Errr Will Skelton
4. Kane Doug... Errr Mitch Chapman
3. Sekope Kepu
2. TPN
1. Benn Robinson
Looks like a sharp team doesn't it?
T
Train Without a Station
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Call me insane here. But I always thought it was best practice to base your game plan around your best players (within reason. Balance, temperament, etc all have to be considered), because if you choose your players based on a pre-conceived game plan decided before you know who you have, potentially you aren't able to play to the best of your talent pool's ability.
Again that's just my hair brained, crazy notion.
You fill gaps to suit a plan that suits the majority of the players at your disposal.
Here's a shock for you, maybe different game plans need different qualities.
For this one it isn't about the 10 showing off all those skills you quote. There's little space or time for it. He's there to hold defenders flat on the gainline and create space for for those outside him. End of.
You get faster, scrappier ball and don't have the luxury of calling it when you want it - it comes as soon as it's there.
As for game management - there's only one plan and it has little kicking in it! You run at em until you run over and through them. For better or worse.
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