Ireland vs Springbokke @ Aviva

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

Thats true and I think thats why Ireland defended the lineout that SA scored the try from.

 

[PaarlBok]

If you're talking about not making any contact at all as Ireland did sometimes the logic is clear.

To have a maul you have to have one defender (at least) engaged with two attackers (at least) otherwise there is no maul.

So if the lineout catcher lands with the ball and gets contacted by a defender he can slip the ball back to a latched-on team mate. There is a maul.

But if the defenders hang back and don't contact the lineout catcher when he lands, and he slips the ball back, THEN a defender makes contact with the lineout catcher (who is in front of the guy he slipped the ball to) then it is obstruction because the catcher is in front of the new ball carrier. Penalty kick to the defenders.

This is what Ireland did. It is high risk and takes a lot of practice because if the lineout jumper lands and does not slip the ball back, but several team mates shove him forward into contact with defenders hanging back, and THEN he slips it to a fellow behind him, it would be difficult to counter the momentum and to defend it from five metres out.
.

Agree, Thing is we had this in the cc and the mauling teams reacted quickly when they saw this from the opponents. Thats the frustration because matfield & kie should have done the same thing. No Plan B. When the mauling team get this right, its an easy try.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Not sure where you get this from.

the Boks have a far better record with pieter helium against the All Blacks then your Heyneke.

Heyneke is one loss away from dropping below piet helium with EYTs which look quite sure at this stage.

Piet helium and Jake White never had the Bokke out of CC to prepare properly for the end of year tours.

We had much more experience with the team he could pick, and the best players were based locally. Also, since 2011, the All Blacks have been on a different level.

Also, Meyer's winning percentage is a lot higher, and the quality of rugby we play is a lot better.

I see nothing but Heyneke hating in your posts. But it's good, WP supporters aren't used to see Blue Bull coaches at the helm of the Springboks. I'll give you a few more years to get used to it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Dunno the rules but we could not get the lineout mauls going. Ref allowed them to bring it down.

In addition to Oupa @Lee Grant's response, see the "Refereeing Decisions" thread http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/refereeing-decisions.12471/page-30#post-640235 for more discussion on the issue.

This post in particular, from "Refereeing Discussions" thread, contains the "ruling" from IRB vvv

3 videos and 1 PDF in this zip file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12100054/Mauls.zip

 

[Blue]

Have you ready my posts? I don't think it's "hunky dory". I also think blaming every loss and poor game overseas on complacency is too simplistic and we will be doomed to fail repeatedly if that's all we're looking at.

South Africa has a tendency to believe their own press and after good performances against the top teams we go to sleep.

You can argue all you want but we lack a clinical edge.

I think we tend to get complacent but I didn't say that is the sole reason for our loss / losses. The primary reasons we lost were in the halves and an inability to vary the game plan when we needed to. Our forwards weren't angry enough either.

 

[mxyzptlk]

If you're talking about not making any contact at all as Ireland did sometimes the logic is clear.

To have a maul you have to have one defender (at least) engaged with two attackers (at least) otherwise there is no maul[...]

Yeah, I thought it was a clear working of the laws -- and that's not a criticism, that's a positive. They understood how the laws define the maul: If the maul is set, Jack McGrath can't cut around the side and sack the ball carrier; if the maul isn't set, Jack McGrath has free reign to run around the side all he wants.

Bismark du Plessis could do with a better understanding of when you can come in from the side and when you can't.

Ireland (Les Kiss) used that same kind of approach to the laws when they started mastering the choke tackle, turning an open-field tackle into a maul in order to regain possession.

The lineout trick isn't particularly new -- New Zealand used it against South Africa in the Under 20's World Championship this past year. I think the laws were altered due to that game, because New Zealand was backing off of the opposition after the lineout. A couple of times they did that, they looked like they were running away, and the Boks just sat there baffled. So now if a team wants to not engage the maul (if I have this right), they can't back off, they have to hold their line. That gives the ball-carrier a chance to move forward and maintains play.

But seeing Ireland do that made me cheer. It was jujitsu rugby, turning one of the Springboks strengths into a weakness. Just clever play.

EDIT: I could have looked at Hugh Jarse's comment first, since the stuff he posted covers what I said a lot more sufficiently.

 

[Strewthcobber]

When is the lineout over in that situation where they don't engage the maul?

It doesn't seem to meet any of the criteria to end a lineout? (Maybe the peeling off one, though strictly speaking it doesn't fit)

Because if it,s not over then McGrath can't come round like that can he?

 

[PaarlBok]

We had much more experience with the team he could pick, and the best players were based locally. Also, since 2011, the All Blacks have been on a different level.

Also, Meyer's winning percentage is a lot higher, and the quality of rugby we play is a lot better.

I see nothing but Heyneke hating in your posts. But it's good, WP supporters aren't used to see Blue Bull coaches at the helm of the Springboks. I'll give you a few more years to get used to it.

Some points out of your reply.
More experiense? you must be joking, Meyer got the same bunch excpet Smit and few that retired.
The best players locally = well at the very least Snor brought them back home like Matfield & Percy, Meyer want them to play overseas. Exactly the sole reason for my hardest critics on Meyer. He is busy killing our local rugby by picking overseas players as Springboks

Nothing hate Boet, I respect the title not the person. Funny how the same Meyer gat kruipers were Snors biggest critics.

 

[Blue]

Meyer want them to play overseas. .

Boknaai.

Nou praat jy kak oom.

I can't believe you get so worked up about 4 players in the 23.

I agree that we should not be picking those players but Meyer wants them to play overseas? Rubbish.

Maybe he wants them all at the Bulls?

 

[Dewald Nel]

Boknaai.

Nou praat jy kak oom.

I can't believe you get so worked up about 4 players in the 23.

I agree that we should not be picking those players but Meyer wants them to play overseas? Rubbish.

Maybe he wants them all at the Bulls?

Janee, it's getting a bit silly now. Not worth even replying any more. Only 2 different players from 2011? Somebody's not getting ANY of their facts straight.

 

[PaarlBok]

Boknaai.

Nou praat jy kak oom.

I can't believe you get so worked up about 4 players in the 23.

I agree that we should not be picking those players but Meyer wants them to play overseas? Rubbish.

Maybe he wants them all at the Bulls?

I'll get the qoute where he stated its good for SA players to play oversea and get experiense. Try to googkle it quick but get pages and pages when you use his name and oversea players.

At least you critize him just as hectic as you did to Snor, Dewald however is a lost case, he see skin colour to it.

 

[Dewald Nel]

I'll get the qoute where he stated its good for SA players to play oversea and get experiense. Try to googkle it quick but get pages and pages when you use his name and oversea players.

At least you critize him just as hectic as you did to Snor, Dewald however is a lost case, he see skin colour to it.

Poefie hoor.

 

[Sully]

A little more English would be nice.

 

[Blue]

A little more English would be nice.

Look at it as a cultural experience.

 

[Ulrich]

Jake White was / is a great exponent of the basics - the essence of rugby and how we'd want to play today. White is also an excellent man manager.

PdV was a funny man. Players liked him.

Meyer is a good coach who has brought good change to SA Rugby. Having the CC players available is SARU's way of saying "Rather this than playing intl games without the top players because most can technically be excluded from the squad because of medical niggles". He brought about this change as much as they have learnt from the past two coaches' methods.


Next year's RC is shortened and given the CC leniancy I don't expect Meyer will receive support from SARU if he excluded players for Bok games to rest them for the RWC.

Meyer is also an excellent man manager.

Sums up how pathetic our local system is unfortunately but at least Meyer has brought some positive enthusiasm about the matter of changing it.

Under his guidance and that of Rassie Erasmus they have been developing their statistics app and distribute it to all professionally recognised unions / regions in the country.

All unions now have a very scientific breakdown of Bok quality on all pro players in the country.

Meyer is the type of coach who needs 8 years. Think of him as a Sir Clive Woodward or Sir Graham Henry 3 years into their tenure.

Compare the 2006 All Blacks to today's All Blacks.

 

[Blue]

I'll get the qoute where he stated its good for SA players to play oversea and get experiense. Try to googkle it quick but get pages and pages when you use his name and oversea players.

At least you critize him just as hectic as you did to Snor, Dewald however is a lost case, he see skin colour to it.

Bakkies must go.

Habana picks himself.

Schalk for me is 50/50 - I would rather see a youngster.

Ruan Pienaar gets picked becuase the current crop of SA scrummies are really shit. We have a bunch of little nippy sniper types. Nobody who can control a game with their boot and really direct the forwards, protect their 10 properly etc. It must be the worst bunch of 9's since readmission.

I would still pick Francois Louw. Our best back row is him, Alberts and Dwayne.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Bakkies must go.

Habana picks himself.

Schalk for me is 50/50 - I would rather see a youngster.

Ruan Pienaar gets picked becuase the current crop of SA scrummies are really shit. We have a bunch of little nippy sniper types. Nobody who can control a game with their boot and really direct the forwards, protect their 10 properly etc. It must be the worst bunch of 9's since readmission.

I would still pick Francois Louw. Our best back row is him, Alberts and Dwayne.

So, Bakkies went. Schalk was great vs. England. And yes, Ruan Pienaar is there because, as you say:
- The alternatives are shit.
- He would be more familiar with the conditions come WC time than Piet van Zyl, Vermaak, etc. (Vermaak plays for Toulose, south France - long way away from UK, and basically next to Spain).
- He already has experience - most of it crap, but experience nonetheless.
- His type of play fits in better with the team's gameplan, as opposed to Vermaak, Pretorius etc. Thus no need to groom him first, unlike the other candidates.

 

[PaarlBok]

Janee, it's getting a bit silly now. Not worth even replying any more. Only 2 different players from 2011? Somebody's not getting ANY of their facts straight.

Well fact is your Meyer is nowhere with this Bok selections. Look like prymary school kids on saturday.

 

[PaarlBok]