2015 Schools Rowing
- Thread starter Major Rennie
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fpiglet
Darby Loudon (17)
Results
From Club VIII event in NZ Christmas Regatta
Heat 2 Joeys 1st 6:15.42 Shore 2nd 6:27.26 first 3 go thru to final on Sunday
Result from U18 schoolboy VIII in NZ Christmas Regatta
Heat 2 Joeys 1st 6:12.26 Shore 3rd 6:29.09 first 4 go thru to final on Sunday
Joeys 2nd VIII thru to final in Club VIII
Kings and Scots seem to have been up to Grafton picking up silverware for their first camp. I thought ISIS were heading to NZ? Anyone?
Iggies must have finished their first camp as one rower has been doing the NSWIS time trial. Any word on Grammar, Newington or High as to where they went?
From Club VIII event in NZ Christmas Regatta
Heat 2 Joeys 1st 6:15.42 Shore 2nd 6:27.26 first 3 go thru to final on Sunday
Result from U18 schoolboy VIII in NZ Christmas Regatta
Heat 2 Joeys 1st 6:12.26 Shore 3rd 6:29.09 first 4 go thru to final on Sunday
Joeys 2nd VIII thru to final in Club VIII
Kings and Scots seem to have been up to Grafton picking up silverware for their first camp. I thought ISIS were heading to NZ? Anyone?
Iggies must have finished their first camp as one rower has been doing the NSWIS time trial. Any word on Grammar, Newington or High as to where they went?
behindtheshed
Billy Sheehan (19)
ISIS was never scheduled to go to NZ, their Bellevue Hill cell was put on a watch list after KT sent the cerise and blue cell to which he was previously loyal.
NZ results make interesting reading, thanks fpiglet. I think unless Shore has a finals strategy equal to Thorpey's last 25m in the 100m relay, they simply don't have what it takes this season. 2nd eights, on the other hand are still wide open. Neither Joeys nor Shore 2nds made boys' U18 final, but Joeys 6 seconds ahead in men's club heat.
Nothing in the Grafton results suggests that New or ISIS will be a real threat in the latter part of the season. Except Scots did okay in a mixed crew - maybe they should pop the girls in at HOTR time?
NZ results make interesting reading, thanks fpiglet. I think unless Shore has a finals strategy equal to Thorpey's last 25m in the 100m relay, they simply don't have what it takes this season. 2nd eights, on the other hand are still wide open. Neither Joeys nor Shore 2nds made boys' U18 final, but Joeys 6 seconds ahead in men's club heat.
Nothing in the Grafton results suggests that New or ISIS will be a real threat in the latter part of the season. Except Scots did okay in a mixed crew - maybe they should pop the girls in at HOTR time?
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behindtheshed
Billy Sheehan (19)
Sorry, my bad - just a brain snap when I meant to write King's.
I would never claim that all of the other schools are ever truly out of the mix, but after the latest results from NZ it would take a serious misfortune to upset Joeys and Shore as the top 2 contenders. 1st eight just did a 5:53 for a win - that's pretty impressive for the first half of the season, hard to see why they would not continue to dominate from this point.
fpiglet
Darby Loudon (17)
Seems Shore and Joeys had a gentleman's agreement to split the finals. Joeys to the Schoolboy and Shore to the club final. Agree, seems the Joeys VIII seems to be doing some good times.... What will Jennings do, I wonder?
Major Rennie
Herbert Moran (7)
Anyone got the link to the NZ results ?
MR
MR
fpiglet
Darby Loudon (17)
Christmas Regatta at Karapiro
Link:
http://www.rowit.co.nz/results/kric2014r1
I think event 78 but just tap on the school name for their results
As expected, NZ rowing website much better organised than RA. Even the events seem to get better sponsorship and the amount of schools that seem to row over there.... We're in big trouble!
Major Rennie
Herbert Moran (7)
Doubt Shore will be able to peg Joeys let alone beat View / Scots. At the moment some distance behind Joeys....
Major Rennie
Herbert Moran (7)
Interesting looking at the school HSC results and the number of students in each year. At the end of the day, more kids = more to choose from = better top sports teams. Numbers are:
1. View 251
2.= SBHS 205
2.= Kings 205
4. Shore 200
5. Joeys 198
6. Grammar 188
7. Newington 178
8. Scots 166
So View have 85 more students that Scots. That's a lot. Strange as a lot of kids in Mosman go to Scots so would have thought they were one of the bigger schools. All the other schools have a similar number so on an even keel when it comes to picking sports teams.
Given the grounds of View & Kings suggest they have more space to grow than the others, particularly Kings. Shore bought Graythwaite recently siphoning funds from Old Boys, incl me, though dont know what they intend to do re numbers.
MR
1. View 251
2.= SBHS 205
2.= Kings 205
4. Shore 200
5. Joeys 198
6. Grammar 188
7. Newington 178
8. Scots 166
So View have 85 more students that Scots. That's a lot. Strange as a lot of kids in Mosman go to Scots so would have thought they were one of the bigger schools. All the other schools have a similar number so on an even keel when it comes to picking sports teams.
Given the grounds of View & Kings suggest they have more space to grow than the others, particularly Kings. Shore bought Graythwaite recently siphoning funds from Old Boys, incl me, though dont know what they intend to do re numbers.
MR
fpiglet
Darby Loudon (17)
Not quite sure I agree here, MR. With the exception of Riverview, who are also on a path of economic domination in the GPS, all the most populous Year 12 schools on your table are crap at rugby these days. It seems those with less students must have higher quality athletes and tend to dominate the rugby (and basketball) in recent times.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Not sure what this is doing in this thread, but those figures are not correct: I know where you got them but they do not reflect the number of kids actually attending some of the schools.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Understand that - I meant the numbers for year 12 for one particular school are wrong
In regards to what you said there fpiglet I strongly disagree. Your saying that schools with less students are dominating the rugby yet it's been quite a few years since we've seen grammar have any input into rugby, let alone any sport in the GPS. From your logic of "schools with less students having higher quality athletes" (which is a load of crap) grammar should be up there competing in the top 3 every year. I would also like to bring to your attention that this is a rowing forum so we don't really care about rugby or basketball or any other sports for that matter.
behindtheshed
Billy Sheehan (19)
I love school stats almost more than any other kind, because they can be turned every way and viewed through many different prisms.
For example, what you see with the cohort size for Year 12 does incorporate boys who have joined the school at Year 10 or 11 entry, most of whom will never pick up an oar and definitely not have a seat in the 1st or 2nd VIII. This is really also true for the vast majority of players in Firsts in any sport (ISIL being the obvious exception) as has been proved in other forums on this fine site, most GPS schools take considerable pride in the individual history of their Firsts teams, many of whom have played together since Year 7 and often earlier.
In Sydney, certainly since the mid-90s and definitely post-GFC, all private schools are struggling to maintain enrolments, especially in year 7,8 and 9. Virtually every independent school and ESPECIALLY boarding schools, are now "inverted pyramid" populations: they begin with about 160 in junior high school and expand to about 200 by Year 12.
The notable exception is Riverview, chiefly because of the dearth of primary schools for the huge population of children on the lower North Shore, and also a long-standing obsession among their parents about getting into 'View for Year 5. It is the Golden Ticket which spares you the ignominy of St.Pius or Marist North Shore. So they begin Year 7 with only about 30 places added, most of whom are boarders or sons of alums. 220 in year 7 grows by not much to 250 by Year 12.
The variables at other schools are the selective aspect - seriously, can anyone really argue the case for Grammar being a sporting powerhouse, Saucyboy? That is not their brief. It is academically selective and has two feeder junior schools where the winnowing happens at the end of year 6. Boys have to pass that exam just like a newcomer, they do not proceed automatically to College Street. (which really invites examination of why they do not outstrip James Ruse in HSC results by a long way; after all, not only are they taking the cream of the crop, but much of that crop has been educated and moulded by the Grammar machine since preschool. What exactly are they doing with those boys for 13 years?
ISIL cannot expand any further under the watchful gaze of their neighbours. The blinds flick every time a boy in a blazer walks in those gates and as they have been under-reporting their numbers for years they will be under a lot more council scrutiny.
More variables:
Shore, New, ISIL, Kings,'View and Grammar all have junior schools to guarantee enrolments. Only Joeys and High do not.
Grammar and High are selective.
Grammar and High have no boarders. (65% at Joeys I have heard)
Riverview, Kings and Joeys have massive grounds with lots of room for expansion.
Riverview and Joeys have their sheds at school. Others have to travel.
When you look at the schools this way you do have to acknowledge that the size of the Year 12 cohort is only one factor. The culture within a school is way more important - you could have 300 boys in a year group but if your dedicated activity is low-profile, then having a large pool to choose from is meaningless. I think you'll find debating has a higher profile at both Grammar and High than ANY sport; and the yearly Musical at Kings is on a par with Head of the River in terms of gaining status as a senior boy.
Success in any school venture is never down to just one element. It's usually a magic combination of just the right students going through at the same time as just the right coach/teacher/principal is presiding over that activity. they hit a sweet spot and BAM!
I know most of this is not specifically about rowing but hey, the other term in the title of this thread is "GPS" right???
For example, what you see with the cohort size for Year 12 does incorporate boys who have joined the school at Year 10 or 11 entry, most of whom will never pick up an oar and definitely not have a seat in the 1st or 2nd VIII. This is really also true for the vast majority of players in Firsts in any sport (ISIL being the obvious exception) as has been proved in other forums on this fine site, most GPS schools take considerable pride in the individual history of their Firsts teams, many of whom have played together since Year 7 and often earlier.
In Sydney, certainly since the mid-90s and definitely post-GFC, all private schools are struggling to maintain enrolments, especially in year 7,8 and 9. Virtually every independent school and ESPECIALLY boarding schools, are now "inverted pyramid" populations: they begin with about 160 in junior high school and expand to about 200 by Year 12.
The notable exception is Riverview, chiefly because of the dearth of primary schools for the huge population of children on the lower North Shore, and also a long-standing obsession among their parents about getting into 'View for Year 5. It is the Golden Ticket which spares you the ignominy of St.Pius or Marist North Shore. So they begin Year 7 with only about 30 places added, most of whom are boarders or sons of alums. 220 in year 7 grows by not much to 250 by Year 12.
The variables at other schools are the selective aspect - seriously, can anyone really argue the case for Grammar being a sporting powerhouse, Saucyboy? That is not their brief. It is academically selective and has two feeder junior schools where the winnowing happens at the end of year 6. Boys have to pass that exam just like a newcomer, they do not proceed automatically to College Street. (which really invites examination of why they do not outstrip James Ruse in HSC results by a long way; after all, not only are they taking the cream of the crop, but much of that crop has been educated and moulded by the Grammar machine since preschool. What exactly are they doing with those boys for 13 years?
ISIL cannot expand any further under the watchful gaze of their neighbours. The blinds flick every time a boy in a blazer walks in those gates and as they have been under-reporting their numbers for years they will be under a lot more council scrutiny.
More variables:
Shore, New, ISIL, Kings,'View and Grammar all have junior schools to guarantee enrolments. Only Joeys and High do not.
Grammar and High are selective.
Grammar and High have no boarders. (65% at Joeys I have heard)
Riverview, Kings and Joeys have massive grounds with lots of room for expansion.
Riverview and Joeys have their sheds at school. Others have to travel.
When you look at the schools this way you do have to acknowledge that the size of the Year 12 cohort is only one factor. The culture within a school is way more important - you could have 300 boys in a year group but if your dedicated activity is low-profile, then having a large pool to choose from is meaningless. I think you'll find debating has a higher profile at both Grammar and High than ANY sport; and the yearly Musical at Kings is on a par with Head of the River in terms of gaining status as a senior boy.
Success in any school venture is never down to just one element. It's usually a magic combination of just the right students going through at the same time as just the right coach/teacher/principal is presiding over that activity. they hit a sweet spot and BAM!
I know most of this is not specifically about rowing but hey, the other term in the title of this thread is "GPS" right???
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
This is wrong.
The boys at the prep schools do not sit the entrance exam any more. If it is thought they will not cope with the so-called demands of academic life at the high school they are told soon enough but the fact is that entry in the first place (Transition, 3rd and 5th classes) is selective and so very few boys are considered not to be up to it by the time they get to the end of 5th class. Boys leave to go to other schools in year 7 to take up scholarships (not sporting).
I am told by those in charge of the joint that most (as in all but one or 2) of the boys who go to grammar would not get into the selective high schools. To suggest that it should equal the totally free James Ruse ignores the #1 requirement for attendance: your parents having a lazy $30k to spend on school fees. The #2 requirement is to care more about learning than the lineage of your classmates.
Contrary to popular myth entrance is not based on exam performance: there is an interview. I am told that the interview process has changed more recently and there is some encouragement given for those with sporting interests - but those interests may not be rugby, cricket and rowing: as the other schools are rapidly finding out!
One final error: Grammar is not struggling to fill any place arising in any year. As far as i can see the GFC had no impact on enrolment at the school, though it had an impact on the Board of Trustees.
behindtheshed
Billy Sheehan (19)
Humble apologies for my Grammar tangent and the many aspects of it which you felt did not give an accurate picture. I don't think you could really argue that entry to Grammar is not based on exam performance when the school itself titles the test "Entrance Examination". I think I'm correct in guessing that an offer for an interview is extended AFTER the exams have been completed and the results known. So I suppose you could half-heartedly claim that entry is not based solely on academic selection, but it is the first hurdle to be jumped, you will not be interviewed unless your results in the exam are outstanding and it is definitely not a "popular myth".
You agree that Year 6 boys are told that they will not meet the standard in Year 7, so again there is a constant winnowing process through the junior years - again, that's the point I was making.
No-one has ever made a truthful and accurate comparison of the selective schools test results and the performance of students in selective independents so a bit of commentary from Grammar staff is not sufficient evaluation.
I'm not sure where you're going with the comment about the lineage of your classmates, and maybe that's best left alone......???
My comment about falling enrolments and the inverted pyramid was about independent school in general post-GFC, not specifically Grammar; power to them if the recruitment policy is working. Of course, with no boarders you don't have the financial and emotional factors which hold boys back from attending until Year 9 or 10.
None of this matters on the water! We have wandered far from where we started, which is the various ways in which schools can be compared and whether it has any bearing on their performance in sport. I still say it is the culture alive in the school which counts! and Lindommer I bow to Grammar's HOTR achievements with everyone else, precisely for that reason: it takes a lot to win HOTR when culturally your school has so many other activites on a pedestal. 600 string players and countless debaters all with a high profile.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
it takes a lot to win the HOTR irrespective of the other activities carried on at all schools.
Most (99.9%) kids in the other GPS schools could attend grammar but they wouldn't be cut much slack with their academic performance: that's the real difference.
Most (99.9%) kids in the other GPS schools could attend grammar but they wouldn't be cut much slack with their academic performance: that's the real difference.
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