Aussie Player Exodus

[Omar Comin']

It's an impressive number. I wonder what the average figure was. Doesn't change the fact French rugby's broadcast deal is less than half of the NRL's, which is a much more significant competitor of Australian rugby. State of Origin 2 had an average audience of over 4 million this year.

 

[TOCC]

Omar you are focussing on the wrong factors, crowds, broadcast agreements etc are irrelevant when talking about the player exodus.. there are other issues like favourable taxation for rugby players and incredibility high munitipiltality subsidising of rugby union teams in France which also has as massive impact club revenue and player recruitment ..

At the end of the day what really matters is the revenue of the club and what their salary cap is.. as of 2014 Top 14 clubs have a salary cap of $15million/season, this is almost triple what is on offer in the NRL or Australian Super Rugby teams.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If there is an exodus of our current Wallaby players, an unanticipated consequence might be to make rugby more attractive to many of the League players in this country. It could be conceivable that the pathway to becoming a Wallaby might be easier and more attractive to top league players with the better chance of touring and playing in the RWC. Not saying that it would be a necessarily good thing, but might appeal to those who think we would be world beaters if the best of the league stars were available for selection.

 

[Omar Comin']

Omar you are focussing on the wrong factors, crowds, broadcast agreements etc are irrelevant when talking about the player exodus.. there are other issues like favourable taxation for rugby players and incredibility high munitipiltality subsidising of rugby union teams in France which also has as massive impact club revenue and player recruitment ..

At the end of the day what really matters is the revenue of the club and what their salary cap is.. as of 2014 Top 14 clubs have a salary cap of $15million/season, this is almost triple what is on offer in the NRL or Australian Super Rugby teams.

This is true but the top players are still not getting paid 3 or 4 times more in French rugby than they are in Australia. Not all the teams even spend up to the salary cap because they can't afford to. And there are still only a limited number of places available. Test rugby plus Super Rugby is still very lucrative and competitive financially, and the lure of the jersey is strong. And for all the doom and gloom, Australia's share of broadcast revenue is expected to rise 50-60% from 2016.

While Australian rugby can still retain the majority of players that it wants to retain I don't think we should be picking players from overseas.

In my opinion the worst thing that can happen for Australian rugby is for our professional teams to become feeder teams for European rugby. This is also why Super Rugby and Rugby Championship expansion and growth is so important.

 

[TOCC]

I was never debating whether the ARU should pick overseas players, thats not something i want orb believe needs to happen in the near future.

As a business you need to be cognisant of competitors and threats to the product you are producing, and right now European Club Rugby definitely represents a threat and needs to be taken seriously.

Losing the likes of Cooper, Folau, Genia, Horwill, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Beale in 2016 would have a profound effect on the ARU's/Reds/Waratahs marketing capability and its ability to attract and maintain sponsors, subsequently marketing sponsorship flows on to crowds and ratings..

 

[the plastic paddy]

If this happens, we won't be finished, but we will have to face the same reality that Britain and NZ faced in league decades ago. That is that the sport is much bigger and wealthier in another part of the world, so our best players are going to be signed to play there whether we like it or not. Thus, if that occurs and we want to be competitive, we'll have to pick players who are plying their trade overseas.

Fortunately the salary cap looks like it is staying in England, but it is rising substantially next year and now includes two players per club who are classed as 'marquee signings' and are outside the £5.5million (sorry I don't know what that is in aussie dollars).

The thing that concerns me, since the Clubs took control of the European cup, is the prospect that they will play hardball over the international season and, ultimately, compensation for player release across borders. The prospect of Aus selecting players from overseas is starting, sadly, to have a bit of an inevitable ring to it. If this progressed to the ARU having to pay Boudjellal, Craig, Lonzeretti or Wray for the release of Aussie players the international game would be finished. The row about the Heineken cup always was about governance, the clubs have control now thanks to the Scottish capitulation, and sadly we are all staring into the abyss.

 

[Omar Comin']

And I'm not debating whether European rugby is a threat, just that it's not quite as big or growing as quickly as what some people would have us believe. It's the same threat it's been for years.

I think of those guys only Cooper and Folau would have any negative effect on the marketing etc of the ARU/Reds/Waratahs.

 

[qwerty51]

And I'm not debating whether European rugby is a threat, just that it's not quite as big or growing as quickly as what some people would have us believe. It's the same threat it's been for years.

I think of those guys only Cooper and Folau would have any negative effect on the marketing etc of the ARU/Reds/Waratahs.

Nah that's wrong, the threat is not the same - it's growing enormously and if you just read above the English clubs want to abolish the salary cap because they can spend more. Dan Carter just got $2.5 mil AUD. No player in AFL or NRL comes close to that.

 

[Omar Comin']

Nah that's wrong, the threat is not the same - it's growing enormously and if you just read above the English clubs want to abolish the salary cap because they can spend more. Dan Carter just got $2.5 mil AUD. No player in AFL or NRL comes close to that.

One team wants to abolish the salary cap. Pretty much everyone else in English rugby has come out supporting the salary cap including the biggest club in the league, Leicester. Saracens just have an owner who's willing to lose millions every year.

That's what European rugby comes down to. Some owners of teams are willing to lose millions every year. Until they stop wanting to. The revenues of the teams are not massively increasing. Dan Carter made a ridiculous amount of money to play in France back in 2008 as well! He's a unique player with unique marketing value. That value has been built on his performances for the All Blacks and his image.

I'd guess Folau would be capable of coming close to $2.5 million per year including endorsements by continuing to play international rugby after 2015 (Olympics could boost his profile even further if he chooses to go for it). Rugby is becoming an increasingly international sport and test rugby is still by far the most popular level. As rugby grows internationally, the biggest stars on the international stage will make more than those that can only play club rugby in France. The biggest stars will make as much, or more in endorsements than they do from their salary.

So long as the ARU and NZRU maintain their selection policies, the very top players will limit their international exposure, and their long term earning capacity by moving to France or England too early in their career.

 

[fatprop]

The post RWC cleanout is pretty normal, the interesting thing to me was the lesser players like Mowen & Douglas getting out before the higher quality players hit the market

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

The favourable tax treatment rugby and soccer players in France used to benefit from no longer exists. It's been mentioned a few times here that it was abolished so let's stop bringing it up!

I still maintain one of the biggest threats to super rugby is the arduous travel schedule. As soon as players start having a family it becomes immensely unattractive. I reckon any player with a family is a huge threat to leave if they can.

 

[TOCC]

The favourable tax treatment rugby and soccer players in France used to benefit from no longer exists. It's been mentioned a few times here that it was abolished so let's stop bringing it up!

A loophole which had the players 'image /rights/value' excluded from the salary cap and subsequently payroll tax was closed years ago, but I'm lead to believe that there exists favourable taxation for rugby players who fall under the 'entertainer' classification which lends to an extremely low tax rate of 8%z

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

No longer exists. It was closed so to speak a few years ago

 

[Marcelo]

I still maintain one of the biggest threats to super rugby is the arduous travel schedule. As soon as players start having a family it becomes immensely unattractive. I reckon any player with a family is a huge threat to leave if they can.

Ok but the European schedule has more games. The Top 14 has 26 rounds while Super Rugby has 18 rounds. Not to mention the games of European cups.

 

[TOCC]

No longer exists. It was closed so to speak a few years ago

Really, there has been a few articles referencing it this year....

 

[Strewthcobber]

Ok but the European schedule has more games. The Top 14 has 26 rounds while Super Rugby has 18 rounds. Not to mention the games of European cups.

You get to sleep in your own bed after most of those games though....

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

No. It's gone.
It was effectively an extension of the tax free threshold up to 30% of your income.
If you earned 100k euros. You would be tax free on 30k and then normal tax rate (bloody high in France) on the rest.
Now there is in fact a surcharge on all salaries over 250k varying from 2%to 4% if you earn over 250k and 500k respectively.
And yes. You play more games but you don't at all 26. Squads are larger and you get a rest. Say the best play 20. Your largest commute in France would be like Bordeaux to Grenoble. Yes a long train ride but no more than 8 hours and the same Timezone. Worst case you're away for two days versus two weeks when you go to SA.

 

[qwerty51]

Ok but the European schedule has more games. The Top 14 has 26 rounds while Super Rugby has 18 rounds. Not to mention the games of European cups.

Their squad sizes are close to 50. Each player would play similar minutes to their Super Rugby counterparts.

 

[Marcelo]

Their squad sizes are close to 50. Each player would play similar minutes to their Super Rugby counterparts.

There are also other issues like the style of play. For example in England it rains almost every day, this makes fields are marshes, which is harder for the players. The Super Rugby fields are better, or at least the weather isn't so bad

 

[Omar Comin']

Their squad sizes are close to 50. Each player would play similar minutes to their Super Rugby counterparts.

I doubt it.

On top of 26 rounds of Top 14, the top teams play at least 6 more matches in Europe. Then there's finals in both competitions. Toulon played 37 matches last season (not including trials).

Compare that to 16 games of Super Rugby, 15 from 2016. Plus either 8 NRC matches or 12-14 test matches.

I'd be shocked if the top players in Europe are playing similar minutes to the top players in Australia. They don't get rested THAT regularly to make up for the difference. And it's not like many Australian players are playing 80 minutes of every game.