Running

[cyclopath]

Anyone who has some knowledge int his area, advice welcome.
As my name suggests, I cycle a fair bit. I started running again last year, and had built up to 10km without too much bother. Over Christmas / New Year I was cycling much more than running, and in the past few weeks when trying to get back to running a bit too, I have developed an odd problem. Despite stretching well before running, once I get 500-1000m in, I get intense pain in my quads (like a muscle tear) and pretty soon have to slow to a walk. It's mainly downhill running, or flat. Uphill less of an issue. I can walk up or downhill at 7kmh without bother.
Googling suggested "eccentric loading" of quads where the contraction of quad muscles to stabilise the knee when running downhill is countered by stretch of the muscle as you land so micro-tears occur.
Has anyone else had this??? It's driving me nuts, as I actually have begun to enjoy running a bit again, but I can't seem to stop it. Funny thing is, it wasn't happening last year at all.

 

[2bluesfan]

I have developed an odd problem. Despite stretching well before running, once I get 500-1000m in, I get intense pain in my quads (like a muscle tear) and pretty soon have to slow to a walk. It's mainly downhill running, or flat. Uphill less of an issue. I can walk up or downhill at 7kmh without bother.
Googling suggested "eccentric loading" of quads where the contraction of quad muscles to stabilise the knee when running downhill is countered by stretch of the muscle as you land so micro-tears occur.
Has anyone else had this??? It's driving me nuts, as I actually have begun to enjoy running a bit again, but I can't seem to stop it. Funny thing is, it wasn't happening last year at all.

That particular problem is something I've never experienced or even heard of before - as Tangawizi has mentioned, there are some very knowledgeable people on Cool Running. Might be worth posting a query there.

 

[fatprop]

Anyone who has some knowledge int his area, advice welcome.
As my name suggests, I cycle a fair bit. I started running again last year, and had built up to 10km without too much bother. Over Christmas / New Year I was cycling much more than running, and in the past few weeks when trying to get back to running a bit too, I have developed an odd problem. Despite stretching well before running, once I get 500-1000m in, I get intense pain in my quads (like a muscle tear) and pretty soon have to slow to a walk. It's mainly downhill running, or flat. Uphill less of an issue. I can walk up or downhill at 7kmh without bother.
Googling suggested "eccentric loading" of quads where the contraction of quad muscles to stabilise the knee when running downhill is countered by stretch of the muscle as you land so micro-tears occur.
Has anyone else had this??? It's driving me nuts, as I actually have begun to enjoy running a bit again, but I can't seem to stop it. Funny thing is, it wasn't happening last year at all.

you may need a visit to a podiatrist or a running coach

 

[Strewthcobber]

Yep, make sure you've got the basics covered like properly fitted new shoes and if that doesn't help go for pro help

 

[cyclopath]

Yep, make sure you've got the basics covered like properly fitted new shoes and if that doesn't help go for pro help

Shoes are good.

 

[2bluesfan]

, once I get 500-1000m in, I get intense pain in my quads (like a muscle tear) and pretty soon have to slow to a walk. It's mainly downhill running, or flat. Uphill less of an issue. I can walk up or downhill at 7kmh without bother.
Googling suggested "eccentric loading" of quads where the contraction of quad muscles to stabilise the knee when running downhill is countered by stretch of the muscle as you land so micro-tears occur.
.

At the risk of seeming impertinent, are you possibly just setting out too fast? Downhill running is a lot harder on your legs than most people understand and perhaps you need to "dial it back" a little? It's a cheap option to try.

 

[cyclopath]

At the risk of seeming impertinent, are you possibly just setting out too fast? Downhill running is a lot harder on your legs than most people understand and perhaps you need to "dial it back" a little? It's a cheap option to try.

I generally start flat or uphill, and I don't go that hard to begin with - it seems to defer the onset but it still happens. If I start straight down hill (even a gentle slope) it comes on faster. Thank you for the suggestion, though, and it's not impertinent! This is why I asked - to get some opinions / advice.

 

[fatprop]

This maybe a bit counter intuitive, but you may have to back down on the workload a bit while you build up runners strength, they are the same muscles but I understand they are used in different ways

It may also help to get a couple of serious sports massages - apologies now for the pain they inflict

 

[Sully]

Silly question cyclo but you aren't digging your heals in and braking as you run down hill? You could try bending your knees a little more and try floating a little.

 

[cyclopath]

Silly question cyclo but you aren't digging your heals in and braking as you run down hill? You could try bending your knees a little more and try floating a little.

No, I run on my forefoot pretty much all the time.

 

[Sully]

No, I run on my forefoot pretty much all the time.

See I told you it was a Silly question.

 

[cyclopath]

See I told you it was a Silly question.

No. It was just not the case. I can think of many sillier things on these boards!

 

[2bluesfan]

Cyclo, any improvement?

 

[cyclopath]

One run since last week. Happened again - stretched 15min, warm up brisk walk 1km, run about 750m then BOOM. Sticking to the bike at the moment. 160km over weekend, no pain.

 

[2bluesfan]

One run since last week. Happened again - stretched 15min, warm up brisk walk 1km, run about 750m then BOOM. Sticking to the bike at the moment. 160km over weekend, no pain.

It's a mystery. Is it almost becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts? Are you tensing because you're expecting a problem? This happened to me a few years back with a recurring calf injury, to the extent that I lost confidence in my calf and that only served to make me more tense when I ran and hence more likely to suffer a recurrence. Just a thought.

 

[TOCC]

Is it isolated to any part of your quads(inside/outside/upper/lower), does it occur in both legs and how long does the pain last once you stop training and is the area tender in the days following?


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[Sully]

Maybe you should talk to a doctor? You know for real legs not third legs.

 

[cyclopath]

Is it isolated to any part of your quads(inside/outside/upper/lower), does it occur in both legs and how long does the pain last once you stop training and is the area tender in the days following?


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Mainly upper and centrally on the anterior thigh - over the rectus femoris / sartorius area (or vastus intermedius underneath those); both sides, although often one happens then the other.
Settles gradually if I slow to walk but does not completely disappear but can walk at pretty good pace - 7kmh or so.
Area is tender the next day (a bit) but usually completely fine the next day.

 

[cyclopath]

Maybe you should talk to a doctor? You know for real legs not third legs.

Funny thing is, I spoke to a mate who is a Sports Doc for NRL teams etc, who was fairly unhelpful. Strange thing, knowing medicos who are mates, they usually assume you're being a hypochondriac, and turn out to be less than helpful at times.

 

[TOCC]

Mainly upper and centrally on the anterior thigh - over the rectus femoris / sartorius area (or vastus intermedius underneath those); both sides, although often one happens then the other.
Settles gradually if I slow to walk but does not completely disappear but can walk at pretty good pace - 7kmh or so.
Area is tender the next day (a bit) but usually completely fine the next day.

That's an interesting injury and I think you are right when you mentioned the eccentric loading causing micro-tears and inflammation. Does you muscle tense up quite a bit, is there a restriction of movement if you try to stretch it once it has become inflamed? Sudden sharp pain would usually indicate a tear but that's obviously not the case if its back to normal in one day.

Given the amount of cycling you do your overall health would be good but I think the amount of cycling may have caused an imbalance in your running style. Two common issues for imbalance causing pain in the quads are the length of your stride(possibly too long) and/or the angle at which you bend at your hips and how the weight is distributed through your core, you may be leaning slightly too far forward.

As for the injury, the only thing I can think of is the micro-tears and inflammation is triggering some form of acute compartment syndrome.


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