Adam Osborne
Frank Nicholson (4)
End of game photo of ACT and Vic U17
ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships
- Thread starter George Smith
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vegascane
Chris McKivat (8)
Animal
Allen Oxlade (6)
Thanks Oldschool, the boys are ready to go and it will be two fantastic games. Will keep posted. Cheers
Adam Osborne
Frank Nicholson (4)
They're on their way
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Adam Osborne
Frank Nicholson (4)
Hopefully the recent JGC successes for the West and Vics will maintain its momentum and flow on as this cohort dances along the Pathway to Gold, resulting in the Age Group National Championships become more than the predictable annual tussle between NSW and QLD for the chocolates.
JGC was always going to be a long term investment and player development strategy, and it is heartening to see that many players from the elite rugby schools are not participating in the programme. Australian Rugby needs more players being developed into better players, not the small elite group in a dozen East Coast schools getting more elite.
JGC was always going to be a long term investment and player development strategy, and it is heartening to see that many players from the elite rugby schools are not participating in the programme. Australian Rugby needs more players being developed into better players, not the small elite group in a dozen East Coast schools getting more elite.
Certainly not my observation. There are some quality 15 year olds who were unavailable and certainly up to the standard. I believe one or two are at, or close to, 1st IV at their schools and / or contracted to NRL clubs.
vegascane
Chris McKivat (8)
Would be great if all eligible players participated, from school or club, in this great competition so we could see the best U15 players from each area/region go up against each other...surely this would be great fro Aus rugby in the long term.
Shane Smeltz
Fred Wood (13)
I'm sure HJ has a much cleverer answer than me but the bottom line is that most GPS, CAS and ISA 'rockstars' from Sydney (as people on here like to call them) did not participate at the U17s level.
Some were named in the large initial group but many of them dropped out before the competition started. Look at some of the U16s from last year's Sydney teams - school and club - and you won't see many names on the final team JGC lists.
Oh, that's right - the final Sydney team lists were never published....
Take it from me then.
As for U15s similar scenario - I know two boys from North West and one from Sydney North that quit before the season started for Harold Matts (league).
However I am talking about Sydney in particular and so was HJ. In other states and regions it was a different story is my understanding and the JGC is seen as a pathway. Which is a great thing.
vegascane
Chris McKivat (8)
^^^^^^
Yes I think so. Down here in Victoria, I'm pretty sure barring injuries, the teams selected were the best Victoria had to offer, albeit trials were voluntary. Great competition. NZ doesn't have something like this for the same age group and summer is treat as summer.
Step in the right direction this competition is for Australian Rugby. Fingers crossed all kids make themselves available for next years competition so we can see the best go up against each other.
Yes I think so. Down here in Victoria, I'm pretty sure barring injuries, the teams selected were the best Victoria had to offer, albeit trials were voluntary. Great competition. NZ doesn't have something like this for the same age group and summer is treat as summer.
Step in the right direction this competition is for Australian Rugby. Fingers crossed all kids make themselves available for next years competition so we can see the best go up against each other.
^^
Why non-participation? A variety of reasons:
Many of them are committed to existing compulsory School summer sports activities, such as rowing, cricket, bubbleball or athletics, swimming, waterpolo, cross country running etc and do not have the time.
Some parents insist on managing the kids sporting and social loads, and believe that getting an education and having some rest and "down time" is important.
Some 15 A, 16 A and First XV programmes run over the summer months. Too much of a good thing.
Some kids are boarding at the schools and the logistics of getting them to non school endorsed extra-curricular activities is unworkable.
Some schools actively discourage participation in JGC as the programme has the athletes at stages at times that contradict their overall School programme.
Are they not up to it?
The elite players in the "dozen East Coast schools" are most certainly up to it. In this regard I would say that this applies to: most but not all of the schools in the NSW AAGPS, and CAS associations, and some of the ISA schools in NSW; Most but not all of the Qld GPS schools and some of the AIC schools in Queensland, along with probably 3 schools in the ACT, and a very slack handful of public schools in NSW and QLD where there is an absolute rugby fanatic on staff who has managed to stand up a rugby team against all the odds.
In some of those schools the non-elite players from the age group D's or F's would clearly benefit from the development experiences from the JGC but when competing with the overall pool of players trying out for Junior Gold Cup, they would not get selected into the programme the first instance.
From my rather limited knowledge, the elite players in Vic, WA and other parts of the country are better off in the club and JGC world.
The bottom line is that the "Big Rugby Schools" will continue to do what they have been doing and do it well, and it is inefficient to throw scarce ARU development resources at them as they do a bloody good job by themselves. We need more average and above average kids through development programmes outside of those who will receive this as a routine part of their school programme.
Why non-participation? A variety of reasons:
Many of them are committed to existing compulsory School summer sports activities, such as rowing, cricket, bubbleball or athletics, swimming, waterpolo, cross country running etc and do not have the time.
Some parents insist on managing the kids sporting and social loads, and believe that getting an education and having some rest and "down time" is important.
Some 15 A, 16 A and First XV programmes run over the summer months. Too much of a good thing.
Some kids are boarding at the schools and the logistics of getting them to non school endorsed extra-curricular activities is unworkable.
Some schools actively discourage participation in JGC as the programme has the athletes at stages at times that contradict their overall School programme.
Are they not up to it?
The elite players in the "dozen East Coast schools" are most certainly up to it. In this regard I would say that this applies to: most but not all of the schools in the NSW AAGPS, and CAS associations, and some of the ISA schools in NSW; Most but not all of the Qld GPS schools and some of the AIC schools in Queensland, along with probably 3 schools in the ACT, and a very slack handful of public schools in NSW and QLD where there is an absolute rugby fanatic on staff who has managed to stand up a rugby team against all the odds.
In some of those schools the non-elite players from the age group D's or F's would clearly benefit from the development experiences from the JGC but when competing with the overall pool of players trying out for Junior Gold Cup, they would not get selected into the programme the first instance.
From my rather limited knowledge, the elite players in Vic, WA and other parts of the country are better off in the club and JGC world.
The bottom line is that the "Big Rugby Schools" will continue to do what they have been doing and do it well, and it is inefficient to throw scarce ARU development resources at them as they do a bloody good job by themselves. We need more average and above average kids through development programmes outside of those who will receive this as a routine part of their school programme.
The rugby landscape in Victoria is completely different to that in NSW and QLD, with the ACT sort of 1/2 and 1/2. From the billets we have had up here from Vic Schools on tour, Vic School Rugby is weak, and VRU Junior Club Rugby is of a relatively speaking very high standard. Many of the Vic Schools may decline to play Club teams on the grounds of safety and their duty of care to their students.
It would be like comparing (I assume) AFL in Victorian Schools to that in NSW Schools (excluding the Schools in Southern NSW near enemy territory which are probably good at Aerial Ping Pong). There is a relatively strong Junior Club AFL competition here up to Under 18's, with little (but increasingly worring concern) school involvement. The Southern Power Under 18's would beat the Endeavour Sports High School AFL team (not sure that they actually have one but they could probably find 18 kids who think they can kick a footy around) by about 240 points to 2.
Nearly everyone on this thread supports the concept of the JGC and vehemently wants to retain that development within the Junior Club System, whether in the Bush or the metropolitan Village Clubs. My concern is that there doesn't seem to have been any increase in player numbers in the Sydney JRU upper age groups on the back of the JGC targeting Under 15's and U17's. If the kids coming out of JGC are not offered challenging games of footy in the "proper" season then all that time and effort to teach them skills via the JGC will be lost as they drift out of rugby through disinterest.
The National Under 16 competition was cancelled indefinitely last year and IIRC the funds redirected to the JGC.
There is a National Schoolboys Championships for Under 18's held annually but with each state running their own schooling systems, some kids in some states can leave school as Under 17's and as they are not attending a School are therefore not eligible to participate in that.
Lastly there is also a National Under 20 Championship, having just been through its second iteration.
I totally agree HJ. For the kids playing in JGC at under 15s level here in Sydney it looks like they'll have one of 4 clubs in A's to play for. I believe a number of the B sides will participate in that comp and will be interested to see how that affects participation next year.
The big question is; if they aren't in one of the school systems you mention, where to next (U16s)? Is the logical step CHS / CCC under 16s next year and then JGC as 17s? Do the Sydney Jnrs teams provide them with an opportunity? JGC is great at the 15s level for kids out west, where we are involved, that aren't in the schools programs to be seen - but without access to the 'elite' programs you mention, it looks to me like they will really struggle to compete as they hit 16 / 17 due to the 'gap' year in the program and its timing (over summer) - that makes participation 3 years running a problem from a 'burn out' perspective.
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