Scrum Talk

[Brendan Hume]

Free kicks should definitely be an option for referees when they aren't sure what's happened (which is pretty often).


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[Hugh Jarse]

"Use it" call for scrums? Was a new law interpretation introduced to Super Rugby by Jaco Peyper during Blues vs Waratahs game last night.

Apparently the ball must be at the feet of the 8, and the scrum must be static, then Sir can call "Use it".

Failure to "use it" is a scrum feed to the opposition team. How did the lawmakers decide to speed up the time consuming boring scrum competition by having another scrum?

 

[Wilson]

Probably needs to be a free kick even though it's a scrum everywhere else, but otherwise it makes sense, there's a use it call for rucks and mauls so there should be one for scrums.

 

[Chris McCracken]

"Use it" call for scrums? Was a new law interpretation introduced to Super Rugby by Jaco Peyper during Blues vs Waratahs game last night.

Apparently the ball must be at the feet of the 8, and the scrum must be static, then Sir can call "Use it".

Failure to "use it" is a scrum feed to the opposition team. How did the lawmakers decide to speed up the time consuming boring scrum competition by having another scrum?

It's not the first time I've heard a ref call "use it" at the back of a scrum recently, either.

Mind you. it's not a terrible idea if the ball's available and scrum's not going forward.

 

[Sully]

I'd be happy if the Penalty was off the table as soon as you kept the ball at the back and tried to push forward or draw a penalty. It's a contested restart not a penalty machine.

 

[Muglair]

"I've learnt a lot already in the last three months and if I can take that to the Wallabies camp and everyone else can ... it's those little things, no more plastic moulds, it's all 15mm [studs], 18mms and 21mms. Those little one per centers, if as players we can take them to the next level, that will help."

Georgina Robinson article this morning with Kepu on the NSW scrum. It is nice to see the attention suddenly being paid to scrummaging. Nice not to see backrow heads bobbing around like meerkats. This sort of focus last seen in the Foley coached Wallaby scrum which improved enormously as a consequence. Happy with that, we stopped and went backwards.

Why is this so hard? There I was wondering if the tight five are wearing long enough studs as they slither all over the place. The cut down soccer boots that backs wear was hard enough to swallow. The fact that players keep stopping to tie up their shoelaces is inexplicable. But plastic moulded soles? How much do these guys get paid? Amateurs used to be more professional!

We continue to live in hope.

 

[fatprop]

"Use it" call for scrums? Was a new law interpretation introduced to Super Rugby by Jaco Peyper during Blues vs Waratahs game last night.

Apparently the ball must be at the feet of the 8, and the scrum must be static, then Sir can call "Use it".

Failure to "use it" is a scrum feed to the opposition team. How did the lawmakers decide to speed up the time consuming boring scrum competition by having another scrum?

Cheika's comment after the game was pretty accurate, he thinks the rule makes a lot of sense, but he was frustrated that it was the first time it was used all season

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[Quick Hands]

Cheika's comment after the game was pretty accurate, he thinks the rule makes a lot of sense, but he was frustrated that it was the first time it was used all season

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I like it too. In fact I suggsted it back at post #820, and I think it should be combined with Sully's suggestion that once the ball is with the number 8 all penalties (except punching etc) are off the table - except for a 5m attacking scrum when going for a pushover.

 

[Quick Hands]

"Use it" call for scrums? Was a new law interpretation introduced to Super Rugby by Jaco Peyper during Blues vs Waratahs game last night.

Apparently the ball must be at the feet of the 8, and the scrum must be static, then Sir can call "Use it".

Failure to "use it" is a scrum feed to the opposition team. How did the lawmakers decide to speed up the time consuming boring scrum competition by having another scrum?

And just to confirm, there are only 3 things which cause a scrum to "end" (other than a penalty or FK)

WR (World Rugby) Laws section was offline yesterday.

20.10 Ending the scrum

(a)​

The ball comes out. When the ball comes out of the scrum in any direction except the tunnel, the scrum ends. ​

(b)​

Scrum in the in-goal. A scrum cannot take place in the in-goal. When the ball in a scrum is on or over the goal line, the scrum ends and an attacker or a defender may legally ground the ball for a try or a touch down. ​

(c)​

Hindmost player unbinds. The hindmost player in a scrum is the player whose feet are nearest the team’s own goal line. If the hindmost player unbinds from the scrum with the ball at that player’s feet and picks up the ball, the scrum ends. ​

 

[cyclopath]

(d) Peyper says

 

[boyo]

Is that like "Simon says"?

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem with the 'use it' call at the end of the first half was that the ball was still under the locks at that point and potentially there to be contested.

Palu could have foreseeably reached through to grab it but the onus shouldn't be on the number 8 to pick the ball up that early.

By the time the Tahs got the ball to the back and it was usable, Peyper blew his whistle.

 

[Quick Hands]

The problem with the 'use it' call at the end of the first half was that the ball was still under the locks at that point and potentially there to be contested.

Palu could have foreseeably reached through to grab it but the onus shouldn't be on the number 8 to pick the ball up that early.

By the time the Tahs got the ball to the back and it was usable, Peyper blew his whistle.

That's the trouble with making it up as you go along, there's no logic to it at all.

 

[kiap]

Worth reading:

The second row generates the most force at the scrum (Scrum Science artice found by kronic)

Is it all in the Front Row?​

​

It is also interesting to learn who is contributing what to the scrum. In a separate article on the Biomechanics of Scrummaging,Milburn reported that the three members of the front row produced 38% of the forward force generated by the entire pack, the locks produced 42% and the loose-forwards 20%. The low force contributed to the total scrum by the loose forwards is attributed to the body alignment of the players when scrummaging, with the props and locks transmitting force directly forward, whereas the flankers push into the scrum at an angle. This might also be linked to a strength differential between the positions.​

​

http://www.protrainingprograms.com/blog/scrum-science-rugby-union-scrummaging-by-the-numbers​

 

[Quick Hands]

Worth reading:

The second row generates the most force at the scrum (Scrum Science artice found by kronic)

Is it all in the Front Row?​

It is also interesting to learn who is contributing what to the scrum. In a separate article on the Biomechanics of Scrummaging, Milburn reported that the three members of the front row produced 38% of the forward force generated by the entire pack, the locks produced 42% and the loose-forwards 20%. The low force contributed to the total scrum by the loose forwards is attributed to the body alignment of the players when scrummaging, with the props and locks transmitting force directly forward, whereas the flankers push into the scrum at an angle. This might also be linked to a strength differential between the positions.​

http://www.protrainingprograms.com/blog/scrum-science-rugby-union-scrummaging-by-the-numbers​

​

[/quote]
So when the props I played with always blamed the second-rowers they were right?

 

[fatprop]

​

So when the props I played with always blamed the second-rowers they were right?[/quote]

Props are always right

 

[brokendown]

I wonder if anybody can find a stat that provides the percentage of penalties in all matches that are scrum related

 

[Chris McCracken]

Worth reading:

The second row generates the most force at the scrum (Scrum Science artice found by kronic)

Is it all in the Front Row?​

​

It is also interesting to learn who is contributing what to the scrum. In a separate article on the Biomechanics of Scrummaging,Milburn reported that the three members of the front row produced 38% of the forward force generated by the entire pack, the locks produced 42% and the loose-forwards 20%. The low force contributed to the total scrum by the loose forwards is attributed to the body alignment of the players when scrummaging, with the props and locks transmitting force directly forward, whereas the flankers push into the scrum at an angle. This might also be linked to a strength differential between the positions.​

​

http://www.protrainingprograms.com/blog/scrum-science-rugby-union-scrummaging-by-the-numbers​

I don't want to seem like a prat, but surely this isn't news? I thought we knew this decades ago.

 

[kiap]

I don't want to seem like a prat, but surely this isn't news? I thought we knew this decades ago.

I wasn't aware of the 10 kN force and 38/42/20 split so for me it was an interesting article, albeit 2 years old.

The importance of a strong second row has long been known and fair enough that you've read the studies from before the game went pro.

I think it's an area that Australia is lacking now. We'd hope to see someone like Skelton come though, although he wasn't yet the answer on the EOYT. Coleman and Arnold, likewise, are future players we might look to before long.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Any research on scrums is great. Playing in all the tight 5 spots at scrum time, it's interesting too feel the various forces through your body. Sometimes it's hideous, but when it's good there's not much better. Would have loved to experience those few scrums for the Tahs on Saturday.


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