Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[abcde]

Abcde, Toby Smith qualifies on ancestry and Steve Mafi doesn't as he has played for Tonga

Well I guess I'd make those changes as well, cheers


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[The_Brown_Hornet]

From his experience at fullback....

And while not great with the boot still a massive step up from Horne and Speight.

Yeah you'd have to think that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be on the paddock somewhere and definitely in the 23. He's so versatile and experienced that I think he can't not be picked.

 

[southsider]

From his experience at fullback....

And while not great with the boot still a massive step up from Horne and Speight.

dont think he is particularly better than either of the other two under the high ball and im sure Horne and Speight can hack the ball just as far as AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) if the need arises because lets face it, thats essentially all he does when he kicks. I begrudgingly agree he will probably be in the 23 somewhere but speight is a out and out finisher which we need and Horne can do everything AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can do but has better defence and is more inclined to pass the ball

 

[hammertimethere]

dont think he is particularly better than either of the other two under the high ball and im sure Horne and Speight can hack the ball just as far as AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) if the need arises because lets face it, thats essentially all he does when he kicks. I begrudgingly agree he will probably be in the 23 somewhere but speight is a out and out finisher which we need and Horne can do everything AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can do but has better defence and is more inclined to pass the ball

So much of that was false I'm not sure where to start

 

[southsider]

So much of that was false I'm not sure where to start

go on

 

[wamberal]

We need wingers who are far more than "finishers".


They have to be able to make tries, as well as dot the ball down.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Interesting thread but can't help but notice that the discussion is mostly about cramming in the maximum number of loose forwards & midfield backs, which is to ignore some fundamentals.

You're required to have 4 props in your 23, therefore you need 5 in your 31. You need 3 genuine locks for the must-wins (England, Wales, KO match(es)) so need 4 plus cover in your 31. Allowing for 3 x hookers & 2 x 7's that leaves room for 6 guys to cover 6, 8 & backup lock(s).

In the backs you'll be wanting 3 x 9's, 2 x 10's, Folau & someone to cover him. That leaves 6 for backup 10, centres & wing so how many centres do you really want on the wing(s)? Max 1, I'd have thought.

Right now you've got a heap of good-to-excellent loose forwards & midfield backs, some of whom are gonna have to miss out. Similarly right now you're short of RWC-quality props & locks but you've just gotta take the best available & hope they're up to it.

 

[KOB1987]

thanks WO, I think everyone is working within those parameters but yours is a more logical bottom up approach..what most are doing is a top down approach by throwing a blanket over the best players and trying to put them in the most suitable role (myself included)..I think that's what you are getting at..

 

[KOB1987]

a unique point of difference in our squad is that if you are in the camp that Pocock & Hooper can play together, then you could afford another 7..however, technically, one of them would be classified as a 6..S McMahon the answer?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

thanks WO, I think everyone is working within those parameters but yours is a more logical bottom up approach..what most are doing is a top down approach by throwing a blanket over the best players and trying to put them in the most suitable role (myself included)..I think that's what you are getting at..

Very much so. You've gotta start with the fundamentals, #1 being the ability to win your own ball & contest the opposition's at first phase. True there's more lineouts than scrums these days but the big scrummaging units are also (or should be) good at stuff like carrying the ball, cleaning out rucks etc. Worrying about which 3rd or 4th choice 6 is the better lineout option, or which 3rd or 4th choice centre is the better wing or fullback (or 5/8) is just nuts IMO. But hey, it's your guys team, pick who you want .***

EDIT: *** including the Pocock & Hooper together thing. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't work against the big boys .

To be fair I've seen some pretty oddball attempts at picking an AB 31 & with similar causes. In our case at least one RWC-worthy wing & a midfielder are gonna miss out (although the injuries to Dagg & Piutau plus SBW's ongoing back spasms may make the selectors lives somewhat less difficult).

 

[Viking]

Are we talking McCalman or Palu ?

McCalman, but I guess you could apply it to both.

 

[hammertimethere]

go on

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is fair to very good under the high ball. Speight is ok, Horne is not real good.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does more than just "hack the ball as far as he can". The man can kick to a good standard when required, Horne much less so and Speight I don't really know.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s defense is good to excellent. Horne is probably a more aggressive tackler but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) makes excellent defensive decisions out wide and has shown the ability to make dominant tackles there in tests against the Kiwis and Boks.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is has a far more well rounded skill set than you give him credit for. Your choice of language borders on hyperbole.

Horne's workrate and aggression is great. He has also become a pretty good finisher. Just don't equate that to likely Test match level effectiveness in all parts of the game in which he would be tested at a RWC.

I would have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the 23 above Horne because he's equally versatile, still an excellent defender and finisher but brings a superior kicking game and 100+ tests of nous/experience which in a KO game you just can't buy.

 

[Scrubber2050]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is fair to very good under the high ball. Speight is ok, Horne is not real good.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does more than just "hack the ball as far as he can". The man can kick to a good standard when required, Horne much less so and Speight I don't really know.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s defense is good to excellent. Horne is probably a more aggressive tackler but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) makes excellent defensive decisions out wide and has shown the ability to make dominant tackles there in tests against the Kiwis and Boks.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is has a far more well rounded skill set than you give him credit for. Your choice of language borders on hyperbole.

Horne's workrate and aggression is great. He has also become a pretty good finisher. Just don't equate that to likely Test match level effectiveness in all parts of the game in which he would be tested at a RWC.

I would have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the 23 above Horne because he's equally versatile, still an excellent defender and finisher but brings a superior kicking game and 100+ tests of nous/experience which in a KO game you just can't buy.

Good post

The only area in which AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is poor in is passing the pill

He should be in the 23 as offers great coverage and very very experienced as well

 

[Viking]

I think Mitchell is more a definite over Horne but they're bloody close. Mitchell gets it for his experience and kicking game. Can play fullback too.

Would love to see MItchell there too. Horne is playing really well though, he will probably be the most unlucky guy to miss out on starting if he isn't selected.

 

[Viking]

Oh for god sake, he's not running a nuclear reactor.

People talk about the lineout like it's some kind of bloody enigma machine.

Incidentally, Fardy is calling the Brumbies lineout, and it's the best in the competition. As he's a certain starter, lets leave Simmons legendary lineout calling out of the equation.

Absolutely agree. Simmons line-out work is greatly overstated. Yes it is importatant at Test level BUT Fardy, Dennis, Higgers are easily capable of filling in those shoes if Simmons is not selected.

It's the whole package that should matter the most, currently because of last years performances Simmons is still in front but it's his to lose. His line-out work should not make him a certain starter.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Very much so. You've gotta start with the fundamentals, #1 being the ability to win your own ball & contest the opposition's at first phase. True there's more lineouts than scrums these days but the big scrummaging units are also (or should be) good at stuff like carrying the ball, cleaning out rucks etc. Worrying about which 3rd or 4th choice 6 is the better lineout option, or which 3rd or 4th choice centre is the better wing or fullback (or 5/8) is just nuts IMO. But hey, it's your guys team, pick who you want .***

EDIT: *** including the Pocock & Hooper together thing. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't work against the big boys .

To be fair I've seen some pretty oddball attempts at picking an AB 31 & with similar causes. In our case at least one RWC-worthy wing & a midfielder are gonna miss out (although the injuries to Dagg & Piutau plus SBW's ongoing back spasms may make the selectors lives somewhat less difficult).

I take your point, but lineout jumpers aren't just locks these days. I can't see us going very far if we don't have three solid options to throw to. We'll get picked off and give up valuable first phase possession if we don't.

I totally agree with starting from the fundamentals, that's why I want us selecting a tight five with an accent on set piece capability. We should be IMHO picking guys who can scrummage and operate a lineout/restart effectively first and foremost. Then comes ball running and the breakdown, which is where the back row balance will be key, but also with an eye on how the tight forwards go around the paddock. If we don't get any of this right then all the fire power that we have in the backs will be utterly wasted. For the record, I think we'll see Pocock and Hooper on the field at the same time, but I don't want us making a habit of them being in the starting XV.

 

[KOB1987]

Re Hooper and Pocock - I think it's close to a given that they will both be in the 23 with a 6/2 bench. It's also highly likely that they will be on the field at the same time. There will be a bit of strategy as to how and when they will be used together. It may be at the start, it may be in the middle, it may be at the end. It will be interesting to see..

 

[Deputy Van Halen]

If the plane was leaving today for England, this is my fit and in form team:

Prop: Slipper, Smith, Kepu, Holmes, PAE
Hooker: Moore, TPN, Hanson
Lock: Simmons, Skelton, Jones, Dennis
Flanker: Pocock, Hooper, Fardy, Higgers, Palu, McCalman
Scrum Half: White, Phipps, Stirzacker
Fly Half: Foley, Giteau
Centres: Lilo, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Kurindrani
Outside Backs: Folau, Harris, Horne, Speight

The team I wish was fit and in form:

Prop: Slipper, Sio, Kepu, Holmes, Weeks
Hooker: Moore, TPN, Hanson
Lock: Simmons, Skelton, Jones, Horwill
Flanker: Pocock, Hooper, Fardy, Higgers, Palu, McCalman
Scrum Half: Phipps, Genia, Strirzacker
Fly Half: Cooper, Foley
Centres: AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Kurindrani, To'omua
Outside Backs: Folau, JOC (James O'Connor), Horne, Speight

I have a hard time finding a spot for Mitchell, maybe for Horne but he's just playing so well at the moment.
Edit: Apparently I no count good, there is room for Mitchell, he would be the 31st in either squad.

It's been said, but we really lack locks. I'm not sure the new guys like Coleman and Arnold coming through should be blooded yet or not. It's probably worth trying one out in the RC instead of throwing one into the RWC but I can't really split the two of them.

Do people really want Latu above Moore/TPN/Hanson/Fingers? Surely he's at least the 5th option.

 

[Braveheart81]

Your squad has 30 players so you have room for one more. I'd guess a 17/14 split is most likely so you could pick an extra back.

Latu has been playing really well but the suspension will hurt his chances. He better hope the Tahs top the Aussie conference and finish second so he can play the semi final.

I think Hanson's form lately has been superb which probably pushes Latu back slightly.

Latu's performance against the Brumbies in Canberra was what really improved his chances in my opinion. He was substantially better than Moore who will be our starting hooker. That combined with TPN's issues has really put Latu in the frame.

If Hanson's good form continues and TPN makes a decent return, Latu will most likely miss out.

Despite being excellent on the EOYT last year, I think Saia Fainga'a will struggle to make it. He has had both injury and form issues this year.

 

[Brumbieman]

Ok this is my starting team:

Slipper
Moore
Kepu
Skelton
Simmons
Fardy
Hooper
McCalman/Palu

Phipps
Foley
Mitchell
To'omua
Kuridrani
Speight
Folau

Sio
Latu/Fainga'a
Holmes
Timani
Vaea
Pocock

White
Lealiifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

I'm assuming Palu will be in intensive care, and he's a start only option, not bench.
I'd start Hooper, as his running game is more use early in a match. Pocock's pilfering and, more importantly the ability to force penalties at a ruck, is more important late in a game when it gives everyone a chance to catch their breath and claim field position/relieve pressure.

Timani and Vaea make the bench, as we need people who can get us over the advantage line and smash people, not more workhorses. They are players that provide a point of difference, and are hugley aggressive.

Higgers fits neither of those positions. Pocock, Vaea and Timani coming on with 30mins would case carnage, and allow the tiring other forwards to play a little tighter and let those three cover the wider work.

We get 3 lineout options starting, with cover on the bench. All prop positions are covered, and Timani/Skelton/Simmons provides a strong scrum as well.
Wider squad forwards would be

PAE - No idea hwo to cheat, but at least he's a beast and has no poor reputation yet.
Latu/Fainga'a - TPN is kaput. He needs to give it up or he'll be licking windows by the age of 35.
Carter (has experience at test level ahead of Coleman/Arnold, and is the best option at four of the 5 core lock duties: Lineout, scrum, maul disruption, tackling/cleanouts, ball running - in that order)
Sir George Smith - more realistically Higgers, but Smith is one of the top three Wallabies in history, has a stupendous wealth of experience and would be of immense benefit to the squad even if he didn't play, just for his composure and team ethic.
Giteau (I know, but he can cover 9-12 and has recent experience in winning in a knock out competition in the NH. Phipps will play 80mins unless injured, I don't see the need to bring a 3rd halfback along as a specialist position. If we do, i'd take Stirzaker, he's in awesome form and is the closest like-for-like replacement for Phipps, they play the same style and would cause the least disruption to the team style)
Horne - Centre/Wing cover
Tomane - back three cover


That's a squad of 30, with room for one more player, depending on necessity.


Between now and the WC though, we offer Laurie Fischer and the best kicking coach we can get our hands on and pay them literally anything they want, to join the coaching team and tune up these skills.