Waratahs v Crusaders, round 15, Saturday 23 May @ Homebush

[dru]

This started childish and gets worse.

The indignation of Skelton supporters when Sader fans were whinging was premature. Ditto now the indignation of the Skelton haters, u til Tahs withdraw or the appeal goes through.

Add me in to your bookmark if it helps.

Doesn't change my irritation with Skeltons shoulder through about a 20 min period where his weight was an attempt to overcome working. Don't like it, he needs to improve or miss the WB cut.

The tip tackle will be decided in appeal, I'll wait. Flouting someone in the road I applaud.

 

[louie]

If it's a agenda to stamp these sort of tackles out of the game shouldn't Skelton have been carded during the game? the disconnection is bizarre

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip> Having stuck with him as captain, Shag has kinda painted himself into a corner unless he's planning to do a Dingo & change his captain 2-3 months out from a RWC.
<snip>

First Rugby World Cup, the NZ Rugby Team changed their captain. IIRC the Coach (was it Lochore, or Grizz Wylie and John Hart?) selected Australian* David Kirk to be the Captain after Old Man Andy Dalton got injured. His replacement - young buck and future NZRT legend Sean Fitzpatrick.

Will we see history repeat itself, with the GOAT in the squad as Captain but not making the 23?









* Future Australian Citizen.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The logic used by the judicial commissioner to determine punishment seems about right.

In the deep dark recesses of my mind, I seem to recall another occasion where there were two players involved in a lifting tackle (6N game I think). The bloke on the bottom got carded (and faced judiciary). The one on top (the Skelton equivalent) got off scot free.

I thought it was a little unusual that one got away with no sanction while his mate got nailed, particularly when both seemed to be equally culpable.

Good to see that this time that the judiciary considered both parties to the tackle equally.

HJ I might be wrong but I think it might have been at the EOYT where To'omua and Kuridrani were both involved. If my memory is right, Matt might have got off ok, but Tevite copped 7 weeks which kept him out of a number of Super games at the beginning of the season. Was it 2013/14? Latu could count himself lucky with 4 weeks rather than 7 if it was similar circumstances as Tevita's.

However, what concerns me more is that the law makers have stipulated a certain penalty for entry level infringement, which the judiciary then have the option to reduce due to mitigating circumstances. Presumably, the entry level penalty is what the law makers assess to be the suitable deterrence in respect of a first offence and it is up to the judiciary to implement the penalties prescribed. I don't see that it is the judiciary's role to essentially make new laws of the game by adding to the prescribed penalty. If some additional deterrence is thought to be needed, surely it is the responsibility of the law makers to change the prescribed entry level penalty.

 

[Gagger]

Here's what makes no sense -

Commissioner says Latu's role much worse than Skelton's, yet he gets 2 weeks the same as Skelton, mitigated as being young and unblemished as Skelton is as well. The only reason he ends up with 4 is with the auto 2 week addition.

Surely that initial 2 week suspension should be different between the two?

 

[Braveheart81]

You'd think that the Frans Steyn incident this season could be used for Skelton's appeal. In that decision, Steyn was originally found not guilty because someone else had contributed to the tackle and then SANZAR appealed and he was found guilty.

The important point in both the original case and the appeal was that the player assisting in the lifting tackle wasn't punished at all.

 

[USARugger]

HJ I might be wrong but I think it might have been at the EOYT where To'omua and Kuridrani were both involved. If my memory is right, Matt might have got off ok, but Tevite copped 7 weeks which kept him out of a number of Super games at the beginning of the season. Was it 2013/14?

Not sure if the two are really comparable - Matty barely had a hold on the other player's leg before TK came in and tried to drill him straight back to the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[Gagger]

You'd think that the Frans Steyn incident this season could be used for Skelton's appeal. In that decision, Steyn was originally found not guilty because someone else had contributed to the tackle and then SANZAR appealed and he was found guilty.

The important point in both the original case and the appeal was that the player assisting in the lifting tackle wasn't punished at all.

Our FREE WILLY case is building

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Big Willie was born in NZ.
Quade Cooper was born in NZ.

Big Willie did some stuff to the GOAT.
Quade Cooper did some stuff to the GOAT.

Quade Cooper was booed in NZ.
Will Big Willie get similar treatment from the NZ crowd during Bled 15?

 

[boyo]

This threads starting to get a bit "special".

You are Bruce MacAvaney

 

[MonkeyBoy]

I am really concerned about judiciaries using medical information as part of the sentence..

They always use them in cases involving other players Higgers facial against the Reds Higginbotham was cleared partially because of the Reds doctors report of no injuries that reflect gouging.

 

[Braveheart81]

They always use them in cases involving other players Higgers facial against the Reds Higginbotham was cleared partially because of the Reds doctors report of no injuries that reflect gouging.

I think that's a bit different though. The medical report goes a big way to determine whether foul play happened in that instance.

For a lifting tackle, the resulting injury or otherwise shouldn't really have an impact. You can get still injured from a legal tackle (not that I'm arguing this was a legal tackle).

 

[MonkeyBoy]

I guess a disclocated AC joint (from impact) for instance would increase the penalty up from low range indicating a driving force maybe?

 

[Braveheart81]

I guess a disclocated AC joint (from impact) for instance would increase the penalty up from low range indicating a driving force maybe?

Que? Where is there an indication Whitelock suffered a dislocated AC joint? Or are you just talking in hypotheticals?

Again, I think an injury is not important. The act of driving the player into the ground in a lifting tackle exacerbates the danger and therefore the subsequent penalty. It shouldn't require an injury or not to change the severity.

The premise is trying to eradicate dangerous play because there is a risk of serious or catastrophic injury. Not to punish injuries that occur.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Que? Where is there an indication Whitelock suffered a dislocated AC joint? Or are you just talking in hypotheticals?

Again, I think an injury is not important. The act of driving the player into the ground in a lifting tackle exacerbates the danger and therefore the subsequent penalty. It shouldn't require an injury or not to change the severity.

The premise is trying to eradicate dangerous play because there is a risk of serious or catastrophic injury. Not to punish injuries that occur.

Hypotheticals, i agree we shouldn't be punishing the injuries but the use of super slow mo and Vinny Munro's rocking can give some inconstancies and make things look worse, in that case a lack of injury expected from a significant could be used to lower a "sentence"

 

[FrankLind]

Sam Whitelock is out of the next match with concussion, but I am pretty sure it was nothing to do with "the tackle".

 

[Braveheart81]

Sam Whitelock is out of the next match with concussion, but I am pretty sure it was nothing to do with "the tackle".

Who knows?

The tackle was in the 17th minute and Whitelock played the full 80.

If he got concussed in the 17th minute, what were the Crusaders medical staff doing?

 

[FrankLind]

Who knows?

The tackle was in the 17th minute and Whitelock played the full 80.

If he got concussed in the 17th minute, what were the Crusaders medical staff doing?

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Bullrush]

It was a shit tackle by both those guys.....Latu for lifting the leg and Skelton for being well after the whistle and after the ball was gone.

It is possible for Whitelock to have not had any of the concussion symptoms until after the game

 

[A mutterer]

It was a shit tackle by both those guys...Latu for lifting the leg and Skelton for being well after the whistle and after the ball was gone.

It is possible for Whitelock to have not had any of the concussion symptoms until after the game

um, no