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Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

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Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
True, Sully. But conversely, with Mumm pushing on the side the Wallabies monstered the Argies for the last two scrums of the match so his contribution must've been effective. I felt a tiny bit of wee escape watching those two scrums, and I was a back!
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
You are a fucking broken record.

What goal kickers do we have that are worthy of selection anywhere besides goal kicking? Actually what kickers do we have that are worthy of selection on their kicking alone?

Fucking zilch.

We can either piss and moan about something that we cannot change now, or do the sensible thing and work with what we have.

It's an absolutely fucking ludicrous thing to say we might not make it out of our group without a reliable goal kicker.

What exceptional goal kickers have lead us to 11 consecutive victories over Wales? Because we would have to lose to them to not make it out of our pool.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
True, Sully. But conversely, with Mumm pushing on the side the Wallabies monstered the Argies for the last two scrums of the match so his contribution must've been effective. I felt a tiny bit of wee escape watching those last two scrums, and I was a back!

Dunno about those scrums. The Argie's bench front row were their development players, probably 3rd stringers.

Still a fan of Mumm's contribution for the match, though.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I actually agree with Wamberal, we won't win the RWC unless their is an improvement in goal kicking, QC (Quade Cooper) and Foley haven't been up to standard. Teams will identify this liability and know they can revert to cynical play without automatically conceding 3 points


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cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I actually agree with Wamberal, we won't win the RWC unless their is an improvement in goal kicking, QC (Quade Cooper) and Foley haven't been up to standard. Teams will identify this liability and know they can revert to cynical play without automatically conceding 3 points


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Then we may as well not turn up. I can't think of a player who is currently kicking better who is good enough to play as 10 for the Wallabies, i.e. who can do all the things required.
But I suspect someone will correct me soon enough.
 

Grandmaster Flash

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Watched the 2003 semi the other day and Flately was like a metronome knocking them over. Big part of the win was the ability to take 3 points whenever it was offer and just ramp up the pressure on the ABs.

And in '99 Burke got us 24 points in the semi against SA and 25 against the French in the final.

Not really offering solutions but it would be lovely to have a 80%+ kicker again. Are there any options? Harris? JOC (James O'Connor)?
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
You are a fucking broken record.

What goal kickers do we have that are worthy of selection anywhere besides goal kicking? Actually what kickers do we have that are worthy of selection on their kicking alone?

Fucking zilch.

We can either piss and moan about something that we cannot change now, or do the sensible thing and work with what we have.

It's an absolutely fucking ludicrous thing to say we might not make it out of our group without a reliable goal kicker.

What exceptional goal kickers have lead us to 11 consecutive victories over Wales? Because we would have to lose to them to not make it out of our pool.

Just an aside: In the vague mists of time I seem to recall that one M Harris yielded up a crucial kick for us to win v Wales, was it the Melbourne Test in 2012?

And at that time, was it not so that Harris was kicking at a % success level to rival Bourke, Flatley, and, if we really go back, Lynagh?
 

Grandmaster Flash

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Of course I've totally missed Giteau, who despite his infamous kicks against the Poms in 2010 and Scotland in 2009 is a reliable kicker and has had Jonny helping him at Toulon.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Then we may as well not turn up. I can't think of a player who is currently kicking better who is good enough to play as 10 for the Wallabies, i.e. who can do all the things required.
But I suspect someone will correct me soon enough.

Unless we're lucky enough to build a genius kicker that needs no technical and mental skills assistance to get to an 80+% level - and they are exceptionally rare - even very good kickers in pressure seasons need the regular support of a seasoned kicking coach, and the better the kicking coach, the better the consistency of results.

J Wilkinson for years related how he consistently retained M Alred to aid with his kicking and to assist in making very fine adjustments to his technique, stance, angle and generally mental focus disciplines and so on. (Alred is rated one of the best kicking coaches in the world btw.)

Partly I suspect as Cheika was heavily compromised in his free time doing dual coaching roles with the Tahs and Wallabies, he has failed to assemble a total coaching capability for the Wallabies that goes anywhere near that possessed by, just for example, England and the ABs.

What consequences flow from this, we will know come November if not before. What cannot be disputed though is how risky such a comparatively under-resourced national coaching group is, especially in a RWC year and where such is Cheika's first full year as national coach.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Maybe, but Harris is not good enough to command a starting position over any other player, so it's a moot point. He's not a bad player by any stretch, but I cannot see where he could be slotted in.

That of course was not my point: my point was to address TWAS' historical post re Wales, and namely that a class kicker (as Harris once indisputably was), even if not a great Test player and Harris was not, can be crucial in Test matches, even against Wales ;).
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Then we may as well not turn up. I can't think of a player who is currently kicking better who is good enough to play as 10 for the Wallabies, i.e. who can do all the things required.
But I suspect someone will correct me soon enough.

Not going to correct anything you've said here, but another option, not necessarily better in the goal kicking department, but an option nevertheless, is to play To'omua at 10 and Lealiifano at 12. When kicking well, Christian is the equal of either Foley or Cooper, and when off the boil is no worse that the others have been recently.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
None of our kickers are performing to the best of their ability. But as TWAS says we are better to work with what we have and try to improve them. To put things in perspective, these are the kicking strike rates for our and NZ kickers during last year's internationals:

AUS
Foley - 79.55%
Beale - 88.89%

NZL
Cruden - 62.5%
Barrett - 64.29%
Slade - 77.78%
Carter - 75%
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
None of our kickers are performing to the best of their ability. But as TWAS says we are better to work with what we have and try to improve them. To put things in perspective, these are the kicking strike rates for our and NZ kickers during last year's internationals:

AUS
Foley - 79.55%
Beale - 88.89%

NZL
Cruden - 62.5%
Barrett - 64.29%
Slade - 77.78%
Carter - 75%

That looks okay.

But these numbers below (from goalkickers.co.za) might be more useful. Unfortunately it's from 2014 as they don't have this years' Super data yet (they do have tests but there's not as many games). I think NZ have the better kickers:

CLICK TO ZOOM IN

2014 Super Rugby kickers.png
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
That looks okay.

But these numbers below (from goalkickers.co.za) might be more useful. Unfortunately it's from 2014 as they don't have this years' Super data yet (they do have tests but there's not as many games). I think NZ have the better kickers:

CLICK TO ZOOM IN

View attachment 6707

Yes, my point was that our kickers have the potential to be fine, they just need to find their mojo.

Here are the 2015 S15 stats for the AUS & NZ kickers (only those that may represent their country).

AUS
Foley - 70.65%
Lealiifano - 73.42%
Cooper - 57.89%
O'Connor - 67.86%
Beale wasn't there for some reason but his stats are skewed anyway as he only takes the long range kicks for the Tahs

NZ
Sopoaga - 66.35%
Carter - 78.95%
Barrett - 66.07%
Slade - 72.92%

But if you need to kick at 80%+ to win the RWC then NZ have some work to do as well.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
The raw percentage is only a very rough guide if not modified for difficulty.

Pop-gun kickers will turn down long kicks, and so on. That's why the Saffa website does all its analysis.

But even without any numbers you tell a fair bit just by looking at the kicker's style. Some of our guys are, well, agricultural.
 
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