England v NZ & Aust 2015

[Quick Hands]

Neville and Starc hanging in there. England don't have any reviews left either.

They're showing a bit of fight and a bit of discipline. The more runs the better - another 100 would be nice

 

[Strewthcobber]

The tail setting up one of Australia's greatest ever victories here.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A fairly modest total to chase. At least it is 3 figures.

 

[light]

The English must be nervous now.

These guys are notorious for collapsing when the game is on the line. 120 is enough to interest the bowlers, as always early wickets will be crucial.

I'm backing our boys to take this one down to the wire.

 

[Quick Hands]

Only problem is we don't have McGrath and Warne playing. We'd be favourites if we did.

That said, a couple of early wickets could set English nerves a flutter.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Clarke dropping routine slip catches now too. He really doesn't have much longer...

 

[Quick Hands]

Not the day to be dropping catches.

Hazelwood and Starc again bowl some fantastic deliveries, but too much loose stuff in between. Can't gift easy runs when you're defending 120.

 

[Quick Hands]

England by 8 wickets.

 

[No4918]

Well.... damn. Very bad loss but I don't know that there is anything deeply wrong with the side.

Voges has to go, Marsh's form is too good.

I said at the start of the series I was concerned about Clarke and unfortunately his form has been worse than feared. Would be crazy to drop him but he looks broken.

 

[Quick Hands]

Jeez mate calm down, not sure why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about Voges. Not like he's failed horribly. Hard to judge what happened at Lords, given he came in at 3-400 in the first dig and didn't bat in the second.

He will live or die on his form, just like all other Aussie bats. Age doesn't really have much to do with it. With Shaun Marsh in form he might not be in for much longer. That doesn't make the selectors original decision any less justified IMO.
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Well, does coming in at 3/34 and getting out for 16 in the 1st innings and coming in at 3/76 and going for a first ball duck qualify as failing horribly?

 

[light]

Yikes. Fellas need to take a long hard look at themselves before Trent Bridge.

Well, does coming in at 3/34 and getting out for 16 in the 1st innings and coming in at 3/76 and going for a first ball duck qualify as failing horribly?

Look at the scores he was coming in at. Surely some of the blame must fall on the blokes above who failed. Smith in particular threw his wicket away softly in both innings. Clarke scored 10 and 3, why aren't you calling for him to be dropped?

Unfortunately, our batting order doesn't look any stronger with Shaun Marsh there. That said, I'm not against dropping Voges after that performance, it would be wrong to ignore Marsh's form.

For mine, Clarke has to return to 5 (where he averages over 60). Marsh probably then comes in at 4 (please not Watson). IMO Nevill justified his selection so the Haddin argument is pretty much non-existent (although I'm sure alot of people will be calling for his re-call).

My biggest concern in regard to our bowlers is Starc. He doesn't seem to have the same control with the red ball as he had with the white ball. Bowls far too many loose balls for a test cricketer and releases the pressure at vital times. Perhaps it's time we take a look at Cummins or Siddle. Personally I'd prefer the former just to see if we can find a point of difference, Siddle is a known quality IMO and Hazlewood is playing the Siddle role well anyway.

Then again Starc bowled well in the second innings and did score some valuable runs. Selectors have some serious issues.

 

[No4918]

Cummins doesn't have the control either. In the CWC games he played he always went for runs so I doubt tests will be any better. I think Siddle and Hazlewood both bowling tight to keep the pressure on will be better.

Either way I don't think the bowlers are the issue. They have always gotten England out for par or less. The batsmen have lost us the two tests.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yikes. Fellas need to take a long hard look at themselves before Trent Bridge.




Look at the scores he was coming in at. Surely some of the blame must fall on the blokes above who failed. Smith in particular threw his wicket away softly in both innings. Clarke scored 10 and 3, why aren't you calling for him to be dropped?

So he comes in at 3/400 and it's not his fault because there are too many runs on the board and he comes in at 3/40 and it's not his fault because there aren't enough runs on the board?

I'm not calling for Clarke to be dropped because he has played 113 tests, scored 8,600 runs at an average of 49.73 - so I think as the Australian captain, with a record like that he gets a bit of leeway. And he's still a year younger than Voges, who has played 5 tests and scored 240 runs (182 of those against a fairly ordinary West Indies team).

See the difference?

 

[light]

Absolutely. I was never calling for Clarke to be dropped, it was just a means of comparison.

However, I think the Voges was a risk worth taking. Lehmann did the same with Rogers last tour and most would agree that turned out pretty well. We're not talking about a bloke who's never played in English conditions before or never been called up to the test squad.

Yes, the experiment has failed and I'm happy for the selectors to look at alternative options I just think it was quite harsh to be critical of him before this series began.

If we start writing off blokes because they are in their mid 30's (despite being far and away the most consistent performer in our domestic competition) we are setting a very dangerous precedent.

 

[Quick Hands]

Actually he has had one excellent season - 2014/15, but other than that he's been nothing special. He's never been in serious contention for the test team during his previous 11 seasons of shield cricket.

In the SS runs scored list he is
2014/15 - 1st
2013/14 - 5th
2012/13 - 23rd
2011/12 - 7th
2010/11 - 10th
2009/10 - 27th
2008/09 - 25th

He's hardly been knocking on the door has he?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=9339;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=7544;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=6788;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=6096;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=5165;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=4482;type=tournament

 

[Strewthcobber]

Actually he has had one excellent season - 2014/15, but other than that he's been nothing special. He's never been in serious contention for the test team during his previous 11 seasons of shield cricket.

In the SS runs scored list he is
2014/15 - 1st
2013/14 - 5th
2012/13 - 23rd
2011/12 - 7th
2010/11 - 10th
2009/10 - 27th
2008/09 - 25th

He's hardly been knocking on the door has he?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=9339;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=7544;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=6788;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=6096;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=5165;type=tournament
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_career.html?id=4482;type=tournament

How has he gone in county cricket? Did well earlier this year but don't know his other scores in England

 

[Quick Hands]

Not in the top 50 in 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011 or 2010

Jaques, Rogers, Katich, Klinger, Cosgrove & Di Venuto all make it. Cosgrove has also been the top runscorer in Sheffield Shield 2 years out of the past 5.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/count...areer.html?class=4;host=1;id=2014;type=season

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/count...areer.html?class=4;host=1;id=2013;type=season

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/count...areer.html?class=4;host=1;id=2012;type=season

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/count...areer.html?class=4;host=1;id=2011;type=season

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ccdiv...most_runs_career.html?id=5608;type=tournament

 

[barbarian]

Well, does coming in at 3/34 and getting out for 16 in the 1st innings and coming in at 3/76 and going for a first ball duck qualify as failing horribly?

Yes he failed. Your glee at pointing this out is a little weird.

His spot is certainly in jeopardy. Still doesn't make the decision of the selectors wrong in the WI.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes he failed. Your glee at pointing this out is a little weird.

His spot is certainly in jeopardy. Still doesn't make the decision of the selectors wrong in the WI.
.

No glee, we needed him to go well. Just questioning your logic in the previous post.

We'll agree to disagree on the selection - totally wrong IMO - in fact the worst in at least 20 years.

 

[Highlander35]

Michael Beer?