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2016 Schools rowing

Who will win?


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behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
my apologies, after checking the aagps code of conduct you are indeed correct. However the code of conduct does say "unfair or illegal tactics to gain an advantage should never be used". Due to the ambiguous nature of the statement i guess a debate could be made either way. However I agree with LR with regards to the 'gentlemen's agreement', and club rowing, boys who make the effort to go outside of school concurrently with their winter support should be commended.

Indeed! I agree with both of you, LR and John. There's nothing illegal or unfair because every school has its shed and every school decides how they will approach the season; if Scots decides to open their shed for a bit of sculling, well New has it within their power to do the same. If Joeys want something for boys to do on a Sunday morning, so equally does Riverview.

It would be different if boys were asked to make a choice between winter rowing training and a competitive sport; or if trials took place while winter sport was still underway. The boys who really do want to get an edge (individually) are already rowing at club level.

And just in case there is an assumption that it's the top rowers trying to secure a place in their 1st VIII, I know it ain't necessarily so: in many cases boys are doing extra weights, water training and ergs in addition to their rugby, soccer or cross country so that they will scrape in and get their butt in a boat.
 
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notthefbi

Guest
Just a friendly reminder to everyone - there is a LOT of misinformation in this thread. Most 'facts' here are just the opinion of individuals. Take everything you read here as false, until proven true.
 

behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
Just a friendly reminder to everyone - there is a LOT of misinformation in this thread. Most 'facts' here are just the opinion of individuals. Take everything you read here as false, until proven true.

Surely no-one would see this thread as anything other than opinion? that's what we love about it! at the same time, there's lots of good info being exchanged and I doubt anyone is in danger of treating it as gospel truth - despite the Messiah complexes of a few contributors......
 

behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
Just a friendly reminder to everyone - there is a LOT of misinformation in this thread. Most 'facts' here are just the opinion of individuals. Take everything you read here as false, until proven true.

otherwise please point out misinformation when it appears? as you've obviously come across a few inaccuracies.
 

behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
Just a friendly reminder to everyone - there is a LOT of misinformation in this thread. Most 'facts' here are just the opinion of individuals. Take everything you read here as false, until proven true.

and I mean this sincerely, not as a gee-up
 

bow seat

Frank Nicholson (4)
I think it's timely to point out that no boy can ever be said to be "returning" to the 1st VIII until he is actually selected. They are returning to rowing, sure; they were in the 1st VIII last season, yes; but every season each individual must compete with that year's cohort.

While my gut feeling tells me that it should make a difference how many of a crew have already rowed in a top crew before, I wonder if anyone on this forum has been able to examine those stats and say for sure that it's an advantage (other than psychological). I'll happily while away my days in retirement doing just that, but if we have to wait that long then it will only be ready in time for the 2033 HOTR. Maybe one of you has already poked around the results for this? Likewise the claim that the best crew at the start of the season will probably take the title at the end - gut instinct says that's probably true, but can anyone assure us that the stats back it up?

Regarding the whole cattle/coaches issue, I refer you to my lengthy rants about this on the 2015 thread. To truly excel, you need the perfect storm of coach, "cattle" and culture all present in the shed at once. I've coached a variety of sports and extra-curriculars over many years. If you have a talented group, you can push them to achieve and have a lot of success - with the right coaching method - but only if that quest is supported financially and "in spirit" by the whole school culture. I won't repeat myself any more: saving the rest for my Ph.D.


In regards to your point on 1st VIII rowers returning I think we should cut right to the chase here, in the MAJORITY of instances most returning 1st VIII rowers would be expected to make the 1st VIII in the following season, and to be perfectly honest most would. As Always i'm happy to be corrected but off the top of my head I can't think of too many examples of ex 1st VIII rowers not making the cut the year after.

In regards to your question on previous 1st VIII rowers making a difference to the result I have mixed opinions. I can think of examples where crews have both thrived and failed with ex 1st VIII rowers in that crew. In my opinion I think it has a lot to do with the dynamics within the crew, do the veterans think they're better than everyone else? Or do they take on the younger less experienced rowers and treat them as equals. Either way I don't believe having previous 1st VIII rowers in a crew makes a huge difference for a crew striving for the Rennie. Just take a look at the 2012 Shore 1st VIII which ( correct me if i'm wrong ), had no previous 1st VIII rowers in that crew and they had a very successful season, ending in a blistering time at the head of the river.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in, on another note good luck to all the crews in this upcoming season and it should be very interesting.

P.S. I'm tipping Shore, Joeys and Newington to take out the podium in the big one, although I can't say in which order quite just yet ;)
 

behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
In regards to your point on 1st VIII rowers returning I think we should cut right to the chase here, in the MAJORITY of instances most returning 1st VIII rowers would be expected to make the 1st VIII in the following season, and to be perfectly honest most would. As Always i'm happy to be corrected but off the top of my head I can't think of too many examples of ex 1st VIII rowers not making the cut the year after.

In regards to your question on previous 1st VIII rowers making a difference to the result I have mixed opinions. I can think of examples where crews have both thrived and failed with ex 1st VIII rowers in that crew. In my opinion I think it has a lot to do with the dynamics within the crew, do the veterans think they're better than everyone else? Or do they take on the younger less experienced rowers and treat them as equals. Either way I don't believe having previous 1st VIII rowers in a crew makes a huge difference for a crew striving for the Rennie. Just take a look at the 2012 Shore 1st VIII which ( correct me if i'm wrong ), had no previous 1st VIII rowers in that crew and they had a very successful season, ending in a blistering time at the head of the river.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in, on another note good luck to all the crews in this upcoming season and it should be very interesting.

P.S. I'm tipping Shore, Joeys and Newington to take out the podium in the big one, although I can't say in which order quite just yet ;)

Not Scots? I'm fascinated by your tip and interested in your reasoning......or is it just loyalty that has you tipping one of these and not KT's young lions?
 

bow seat

Frank Nicholson (4)
Not Scots? I'm fascinated by your tip and interested in your reasoning..or is it just loyalty that has you tipping one of these and not KT's young lions?

Yes well leaving scots out of my tip may go against me later on, however I feel that the lads may have to wait another season or two for their victory.

They definitely have waited a while for their go up on the middle podium, however in that very same breath I feel their are some other schools who are beginning to become just as hungry, and I believe that the competition is heading to a point where it's anyone's race and not just one outlying crew dominating everyone, which in my opinion is exciting and healthy for schoolboy competition.

I've heard word that the year coming up is perhaps not quite as strong as previous seasons for the Scots boys and possibly why I elected not to put them in my top 3.

However as always I'm happy to be proven wrong, just a guess from back in the bow seat ;)
 

behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
Yes well leaving scots out of my tip may go against me later on, however I feel that the lads may have to wait another season or two for their victory.

They definitely have waited a while for their go up on the middle podium, however in that very same breath I feel their are some other schools who are beginning to become just as hungry, and I believe that the competition is heading to a point where it's anyone's race and not just one outlying crew dominating everyone, which in my opinion is exciting and healthy for schoolboy competition.

I've heard word that the year coming up is perhaps not quite as strong as previous seasons for the Scots boys and possibly why I elected not to put them in my top 3.

However as always I'm happy to be proven wrong, just a guess from back in the bow seat ;)

Excellent explanation, BS. Always a pleasure.
 
N

notthefbi

Guest
otherwise please point out misinformation when it appears? as you've obviously come across a few inaccuracies.


I am well ware that Newington Year 11 rowers do not have a mean erg time of 6:30. If that were true, Newington would have had a stronger finish at HOTR.

Concerning the warning,
It was more of warning to some lurkers of the thread - those who don't contribute, but read.

As far as Scots rowers are concerned, I have rowed with them, and there is a strong group. Scots will certainly be in contention with Newington throughout the season, and at HOTR.
 

bow seat

Frank Nicholson (4)
I am well ware that Newington Year 11 rowers do not have a mean erg time of 6:30. If that were true, Newington would have had a stronger finish at HOTR.

Concerning the warning,
It was more of warning to some lurkers of the thread - those who don't contribute, but read.

As far as Scots rowers are concerned, I have rowed with them, and there is a strong group. Scots will certainly be in contention with Newington throughout the season, and at HOTR.

I understand you may be concerned with misinformation on this thread, however most people here would have a decent knowledge of the sport we all love and wouldn't be commenting without some sort of fact to back up their claim.

Also I'm interested to know how you know a schools average erg time? Which then leads to the one of the big questions of the sport, "Do erg scores matter on the water?"
 

LuvToRo

Chris McKivat (8)
In regards to your point on 1st VIII rowers returning I think we should cut right to the chase here, in the MAJORITY of instances most returning 1st VIII rowers would be expected to make the 1st VIII in the following season, and to be perfectly honest most would. As Always i'm happy to be corrected but off the top of my head I can't think of too many examples of ex 1st VIII rowers not making the cut the year after.

In regards to your question on previous 1st VIII rowers making a difference to the result I have mixed opinions. I can think of examples where crews have both thrived and failed with ex 1st VIII rowers in that crew. In my opinion I think it has a lot to do with the dynamics within the crew, do the veterans think they're better than everyone else? Or do they take on the younger less experienced rowers and treat them as equals. Either way I don't believe having previous 1st VIII rowers in a crew makes a huge difference for a crew striving for the Rennie. Just take a look at the 2012 Shore 1st VIII which ( correct me if i'm wrong ), had no previous 1st VIII rowers in that crew and they had a very successful season, ending in a blistering time at the head of the river.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in, on another note good luck to all the crews in this upcoming season and it should be very interesting.

P.S. I'm tipping Shore, Joeys and Newington to take out the podium in the big one, although I can't say in which order quite just yet ;)



Not sure about Newington but its an interesting thought. I suspect that Scots will be strong as well as Shore. Joeys is also interesting as most of their first eight was year 12 and are leaving but all three i know for a fact are working hard. My tip Shore 1st, Scots 2nd and Joeys 3rd
 

bow seat

Frank Nicholson (4)
Not sure about Newington but its an interesting thought. I suspect that Scots will be strong as well as Shore. Joeys is also interesting as most of their first eight was year 12 and are leaving but all three i know for a fact are working hard. My tip Shore 1st, Scots 2nd and Joeys 3rd

To be honest if joeys had no returning 1st VIII rowers returning I would expect them to still be up there, they seem to have developed a good culture, which can only be a positive thing for the boys from hunters hill.

In regards to my prediction I feel that Newington's time is coming, they've been out of it for a while now, a few close ones in the past decade or so and some absolute disasters, particularly in the last few years. Some solid performances in their 1st JVIII and 2nd VIII throughout the last 15 or so years but haven't been able to claim the ultimate prize. They'll be hungry for it.

I also expect Riverview to be hungrier than ever, 4th place for the last 3 years in a row must be getting a bit tiresome now. I expect they'll really up the intensity this year as I'm sure they won't want to be out of it for 4th year in a row. Whether they make it into the top 3 or not ( I predict they won't, just my opinion ), they will give it a good crack I'm sure. I would like to see them make the top 3 along with Newington, just shake everything up a bit, but hey just my view on things.

Anyways my fellow rowing observers I've spoken enough in the last day or two, excited to hear all your opinions and looking forward to the season ahead :)

BS
 

behindtheshed

Billy Sheehan (19)
To be honest if joeys had no returning 1st VIII rowers returning I would expect them to still be up there, they seem to have developed a good culture, which can only be a positive thing for the boys from hunters hill.

In regards to my prediction I feel that Newington's time is coming, they've been out of it for a while now, a few close ones in the past decade or so and some absolute disasters, particularly in the last few years. Some solid performances in their 1st JVIII and 2nd VIII throughout the last 15 or so years but haven't been able to claim the ultimate prize. They'll be hungry for it.

I also expect Riverview to be hungrier than ever, 4th place for the last 3 years in a row must be getting a bit tiresome now. I expect they'll really up the intensity this year as I'm sure they won't want to be out of it for 4th year in a row. Whether they make it into the top 3 or not ( I predict they won't, just my opinion ), they will give it a good crack I'm sure. I would like to see them make the top 3 along with Newington, just shake everything up a bit, but hey just my view on things.

Anyways my fellow rowing observers I've spoken enough in the last day or two, excited to hear all your opinions and looking forward to the season ahead :)

BS

Yes except that the Joeys 2nd VIII had a spectacularly dreadful season whereas the Scots 2nd VIII had an excellent season. That's my logic in tipping the 2016 MR winners. I do think it will be a bit more even with no runaway crews as we've seen in previous years.
 

RowingLAD101

Frank Row (1)
Yes it is early days however one can critically analyse the current situations of all schools:

High: Will turn up and race. My prediction 8th.

Newington: Now have the backing of Michael Morgan which should seek to see their results drastically improve. A decent second viii last year should see them competing for the podium. My prediction is Newington will place 3rd.

Scots: Had quite adequate results at last years AAGPS HOTR. With their first eight coming arguably second to a "better" shore school crew, their second viii won and their first iv came third. This will provide a good base for the upcoming season. My prediction is that Scots will place 2nd.

Joeys: After winning the AAGPS HOTR for the first time in many of our lives they have quite a successful season. However I would like to point out that their second viii came sixth, 1st in the first iv and second iv rowed a pretty average time. With few year 11 boys continuing in the first viii the depth will be a huge issue. Furthermore few numbers in the first and second viii as well as the first and second iv's from 2015 should pose a problem. I believe their first junior viii rowed a 618 which is a building block and a decent start into schoolboy rowing. My prediction is that Joeys will place 4th.

Shore: Shore School are the evepresent threat. They have outstanding depth with the majority of the 2015 AAGPS crews being dominated by year 11's and received EVERY gps crew on the podium. Shore either won or came second in every race and have an outstanding first junior viii crew coming through placing second in a second viii race as well as third at nationals. Five Boys having rowed in the first viii "should" remain in their first viii as well as more depth consisting of four second viii continuing boys a few first four boys continuing and the entire second iv as well as the winning third and fourth iv's. This should see a strong season for the blue and white. My Prediction 1st place.

Riverview: Riverview have struggled of recent, however with the financial backing of a billionare they can never be ruled out. I just don't know if riverview hold the depth or size to be able to take it out however they should challenge for the podium. My prediction 5th.

Sydney G: Sydney G, should field an adequate crew however will turn up and race then go home and study. My prediction 7th.

Kings: Kings should field a strong crew, having a winning 2014 first junior vii coming through. My prediction 6th.

Mark these words.
 
L

LBA

Guest
Mark these words - Very bloody confident.

I think everybody who contributes to this thread should be aware it is a very public forum.

Every boy who signs up for the summer sport of rowing should be encouraged to have fun first and enjoy the season regardless of it being their first their last or anything in between.

I also think viii is a funny way of referring to an VIII. Attention to detail - and let's face it that is a skill very important to rowing. Head height and position. Not shooting your butt !! Hands away with ease / fluid movement.

So many variables to take into consideration.

One man - regardless of him being considered a "Rowing Legend" could not come into any shed and turn it around in one season - especially if he is only going to turn up every now and then. I have also heard he can be very forceful and blunt - some rowers might not respond to be treated poorly. A good coach should know his crew and use language and training techniques that are going to be the most effective.

I still go back to a wonderful story I heard on a pontoon of a young man who spoke the rowing language very well and coached two winning crews. He knew each of the crews strength and weakness and worked carefully with each of them to help them improve. Did not yell abuse or generic words.

A win is a win in my book - yes times are important but to say average - I am sure when the boys celebrated they did not worry about the times. Margins are interesting to watch because it can encourage healthy competition. Let me see the margin that the 1st IV won by at the AAGPS HOR was very slim indeed but they won.

I like the questions from "Behind the Shed"- and I know I have bought this up before as well. Erg training - you do not win races on an erg. On water training and time spent in the boat with your crew should take priority. Any thoughts ??

How about more tips for training - lots of stretching and recovering. Eat more boys - good healthy food and truck loads of it. Rest and recover after long hard training sessions. Wear a hat and sun screen. What other tips can people share?

Start the season fresh - the boys who have left have left - hopefully they will continue rowing. Regardless of what crew you were in last year - turn the page a new season. Do your very best that is all anybody can ask of you.

1st VIII or 3rd VIII and any crew in between walk tall and be proud of all that you will achieve. All the seats have to be filled otherwise there will be no AAGPS Regatta's.
 
L

LBA

Guest
Oh and one more thing while I am on a roll.

"Backed by a Billionaire" are you trying to say that a Billionaire is paying for rowing scholarships to Riverview so they can field a winning VIII or rowing squad to win one trophy?

Or this Billionaire is going to pay for new equipment and coaches - I would rather see a crew row in an old boat, with threadbare zoot suits from training hard win. I don't like seeing people who think they are as flash as a rat with a gold tooth expecting "Manna from Heaven" to fall from the sky.

Dear God of rowing my prayer for the season - no injuries - big smiles - hard work - water like glass. Healthy competition.

Jail wardens who are happy :):) who allow quick easy starts and fair and equal racing for all.

Every parent and boy in every shed I am sure does lots of fund raising and works hard. A billionaire cutting blank cheques - tax deduction??
Again I don't want any student thinking you win because of a sponsor or a billionaire backer.

Be careful what you post !!
 

LuvToRo

Chris McKivat (8)
Oh and one more thing while I am on a roll.

"Backed by a Billionaire" are you trying to say that a Billionaire is paying for rowing scholarships to Riverview so they can field a winning VIII or rowing squad to win one trophy?

Or this Billionaire is going to pay for new equipment and coaches - I would rather see a crew row in an old boat, with threadbare zoot suits from training hard win. I don't like seeing people who think they are as flash as a rat with a gold tooth expecting "Manna from Heaven" to fall from the sky.

Dear God of rowing my prayer for the season - not injuries - big smiles - hard work - water like glass. Healthy competition.

Jail wardens who are happy :):) who allow quick easy starts and fair and equal racing for all.

Every parent and boy in every shed I am sure does lots of fund raising and works hard. A billionaire cutting blank cheques - tax deduction??
Again I don't want any student thinking you win because of a sponsor or a billionaire backer.

Be careful what you post !!


It is very very difficult to give out rowing scholarships! Where would GPS schools import from. Maybe Kinross but unlikely or the only other place is other GPS schools most likely Shore.
 
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