Should The Wallabies be doing a Bumala-y Yuurrama-y?

[mxyzptlk]

Would it be fair and reasonable after the Haka was performed, that we ask the AB's (or any other Haka performing team) to stand silently in a straight line and watch while the Wallabies take 2 minutes to form a huddle, have a chat, slap each other on the buttocks and belt out a few AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE'S..at least until the time when modern Australian society has figured out how best to reference to its own identity prior to kick-off that is.

You should give it a go.

 

[daz]

I'm going to offend people here

Well, probably not as much as I am going to. I wonder if anyone would like to ask the majority of non-indigenous Australians if an Aboriginal war dance at a Wallabies game represents anything at all to do with our culture?

I can't speak for everyone who attends a rugby Test, but a pre-game indigenous war dance done by the Wallabies would mean nothing to me, nor stir any particular cultural feelings deep in my soul.

I took my son through 10 years of junior rugby - not a peep from anyone about rugby as culturally significant to ancient Australia. Given most of my fellow parents were English, South African or Kiwi immigrants, ok, I can understand that over-sight.

But given the Wallabies have traditionally come from private schools and affluent (or at least reasonably comfortable) parentage, it does reek somewhat of lip service and hypocrisy should we suddenly decide to "represent" a portion of the population that has been left on the outer fringes for a hundred years or so.

By the way, not wanting an indigenous war dance performed by the Wallabies does not make me a racist, just in case someone wants to say otherwise.

 

[Slim 293]

Daz, I was going to make a similar point............

It would be somewhat farcical to witness a group of privileged north shore white boys and guys with a PI/NZ heritage perform an Indigenous war dance.

 

[Dumbledore]

Daz, I was going to make a similar point....

It would be somewhat farcical to witness a group of privileged north shore white boys and guys with a PI/NZ heritage perform an Indigenous war dance.

Yup. A recognition of the traditional owners of the land - Wurundjeri for Melbourne, the Gadigal for Sydney, Turball for Brisbane etc. - is all that's needed I think.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Well, probably not as much as I am going to. I wonder if anyone would like to ask the majority of non-indigenous Australians if an Aboriginal war dance at a Wallabies game represents anything at all to do with our culture? [...]

That's actually rather culturally sensitive -- recognizing that to just take on an empty symbolic gesture could be culturally unaware at best, and could also lead to some ugly cultural appropriation. It wouldn't be Washington Redskins-level of tone-deaf, but it's in the neighborhood.

 

[p.Tah]

It would be somewhat farcical to witness a group of privileged north shore white boys and guys with a PI/NZ heritage perform an Indigenous war dance.

The players don't have to perform it. It could be done at home tests by members of a local tribe: Gadigal in Sydney etc. that's what the NRL Indigenous team did in the early years.

I wonder if anyone would like to ask the majority of non-indigenous Australians if an Aboriginal war dance at a Wallabies game represents anything at all to do with our culture?

In my view, that is the whole point of this. We have so little celebration of the Aboriginal culture, there is a strong disconnect with the general population. It shouldn't be this way. Yes we are made up of many cultural backgrounds, but those are celebrated on the world stage in the countries from which those cultures come from. The Australian Aboriginal culture is unique to us.

I don't want it brought in as marketing hype, but an acknowledgement of the original inhabitants before the anthems doesn't cut it for me. That is lip service.

Something such as this cultural dance can't be restricted to rugby. I would prefer if it was just one part of a broader celebration of the culture. If we do this then perhaps the Aboriginal culture will then become something of importance in our wider culture.

 

[ChargerWA]

Another article with an Aboriginal man supporting the concept of an Aboriginal war dance before games.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-03/aboriginal-war-dance-what-it-means-to-koomurri-men/6669334

 

[boyo]

Well, probably not as much as I am going to. I wonder if anyone would like to ask the majority of non-indigenous Australians if an Aboriginal war dance at a Wallabies game represents anything at all to do with our culture?

I can't speak for everyone who attends a rugby Test, but a pre-game indigenous war dance done by the Wallabies would mean nothing to me, nor stir any particular cultural feelings deep in my soul.

I took my son through 10 years of junior rugby - not a peep from anyone about rugby as culturally significant to ancient Australia. Given most of my fellow parents were English, South African or Kiwi immigrants, ok, I can understand that over-sight.

But given the Wallabies have traditionally come from private schools and affluent (or at least reasonably comfortable) parentage, it does reek somewhat of lip service and hypocrisy should we suddenly decide to "represent" a portion of the population that has been left on the outer fringes for a hundred years or so.

By the way, not wanting an indigenous war dance performed by the Wallabies does not make me a racist, just in case someone wants to say otherwise.

How does the Haka have cultural significance to rugby?

 

[daz]

How does the Haka have cultural significance to rugby?

I think the point is that the Haka has cultural significance to New Zealand rugby, given they have a significant percentage of Maori participation in rugby (and a greater appreciation of Maori culture in wider NZ society), where-as an indigenous tribal dance in Australia, performed on the whole by elitist white men, has almost no cultural significance to the Wallabies, or the majority of their supporters.

 

[drop kick]

I think the point is that the Haka has cultural significance to New Zealand rugby, given they have a significant percentage of Maori participation in rugby (and a greater appreciation of Maori culture in wider NZ society), where-as an indigenous tribal dance in Australia, performed on the whole by elitist white men, has almost no cultural significance to the Wallabies, or the majority of their supporters.

I think the point is that we need to foster a greater appreciation of Aboriginal culture in wider Australian culture. ABumalay Yuurramay at sporting matches could be part of that process.

The article that started this discussion is worth another read:
http://theconversation.com/we-all-know-and-admire-the-haka-so-why-not-one-of-our-own-45432

 

[Train Without a Station]

You're missing Daz's point.

As the winners approached our boys, slapping their chests and screaming to their ancestors, our boys raised to take on this second challenge.

"Their" ancestors. Why? Because a number of the players likely had heritage which the haka was significant to.

Do you see the Black Caps perform a haka before each game? No. Possibly due to the fact that it is a sport that has lesser ties to Maori culture.

If AFL was an international game I think it would be the perfect platform as it's a sport that has quite high indigenous participation at the elite level. It would actually almost be guaranteed to be lead by players with aboriginal heritage.

For the Wallabies to do it, it would come across as rather tacky, odd and potentially distasteful if you consider the very real possibility that there may be no player with aboriginal heritage in the side, and would be lead by somebody without any ancestral links to the culture. Which is Daz's implied image of a bunch of rich kids fresh out of Joey's dancing around without any real understanding or appreciation of what they are attempting to represent.

 

[boyo]

I think the point is that the Haka has cultural significance to New Zealand rugby, given they have a significant percentage of Maori participation in rugby (and a greater appreciation of Maori culture in wider NZ society), where-as an indigenous tribal dance in Australia, performed on the whole by elitist white men, has almost no cultural significance to the Wallabies, or the majority of their supporters.

I think that you're confusing cultural significance with historical significance.

 

[daz]

I think that you're confusing cultural significance with historical significance.

There is a difference? Add a bit of age to anything, and they often become the same thing.

 

[southsider]

Rightly or wrongly Australians just don't have a attachment to aboriginal culture, i wouldn't like the wallabies to do it as you can almost count the number of aboriginals that have represented the wallabies on your fingers there's just no point to it. As a white australian I could honestly say I would hate to perform it, I would feel tacky doing it and feel it diminishes the cultural significance of the war cry as well as having no cultural link to it of my own.

The Haka works well I think purely because of the longevity it has had in sport, it is now part of the nz rugby culture as much as it is the Maori culture and obviously because of the higher rate of participation by Maori/PI players

 

[zer0]

I think that you're confusing cultural significance with historical significance.

As with many other parts of New Zealand, rugby has a deal of significance to Maori culture. IIRC, Queen Victoria was reigning when the first Maori rugby team was selected. So its hardly a recent fad.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

how about just as the haka is about to start, cranking the PA to 10 and making some inane "helpful" public announcements?

"Pfitzy, your car is parked in the handicapped space. Again. We've warned you about this before. And no, please dont come to the booth to get your wheels unclamped doing that stupid fake limp. You're not fooling anyone. Not this time."

"Would a Mr Cyclopath please report to the chip stand immediately. I would like some chips but I'm a bit short today eh. Thank you."

Or even more "helpfully", just as NZ are setting to launch into the haka, start playing an audio recording of it on the PA as loud as hell, it'd completely throw them off their rhythm, render them inaudible, they'd stuff up all the words and the moves and the crowd would be absolutely pissing mist.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

^^ Make it a shitty, discordant recording, like this old chestnut:

 

[cyclopath]

how about just as the haka is about to start, cranking the PA to 10 and making some inane "helpful" public announcements?

"Pfitzy, your car is parked in the handicapped space. Again. We've warned you about this before. And no, please dont come to the booth to get your wheels unclamped doing that stupid fake limp. You're not fooling anyone. Not this time."

"Would a Mr Cyclopath please report to the chip stand immediately. I would like some chips but I'm a bit short today eh. Thank you."

Or even more "helpfully", just as NZ are setting to launch into the haka, start playing an audio recording of it on the PA as loud as hell, it'd completely throw them off their rhythm, render them inaudible, they'd stuff up all the words and the moves and the crowd would be absolutely pissing mist.

I generally advise Kiwis to take them off their shoulders and pop them on their heads if they're feeling short. Or under their jandals.

 

[p.Tah]

Rightly or wrongly Australians just don't have a attachment to aboriginal culture, i wouldn't like the wallabies to do it as you can almost count the number of aboriginals that have represented the wallabies on your fingers there's just no point to it. As a white australian I could honestly say I would hate to perform it, I would feel tacky doing it and feel it diminishes the cultural significance of the war cry as well as having no cultural link to it of my own.

The Haka works well I think purely because of the longevity it has had in sport, it is now part of the nz rugby culture as much as it is the Maori culture and obviously because of the higher rate of participation by Maori/PI players

You'd probably feel like these All Blacks from 1973.

Awe inspiring? Connecting to Maori ancestors? No.
But is had to start somewhere and now it's a very significant celebration of Maori culture on the World stage.

 

[ChargerWA]

Exactly. I think some people are getting lost thinking it wouldn't be appropriate because of the limited number of Aboriginal Wallabies. But that's not what it's about. It's about strengthening our links with Aboriginal culture now.