Bledisloe #2 - AUS v NZL, Eden Park, Auckland, August 15th
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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QLDHeeler1990
Frank Row (1)
“I feel that I did well, I did the job that I needed to do in terms of controlling the team around while I was out there”. - Quade Cooper
Mate, I agree you are not the sole reason we lost...but you did not do a good job either. Remember the Sin Bin? Coming from a Reds fan, I get tired of his attitude at times.
Mate, I agree you are not the sole reason we lost...but you did not do a good job either. Remember the Sin Bin? Coming from a Reds fan, I get tired of his attitude at times.
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
WARNING: This might take some time (I'm not joking, this is going to rival RedsHappy at his best 
)
Overall, we played at a similar level to last week, but instead of wild passes and pop gun kicks, we managed to miss straight up tackles and make a few disastrous short kicks. The Kiwis, on the other hand, lifted their game to its usual high standard, and they added Ma Nonu to their team (looking forward to his retirement).
1. Sio - did the Kiwis work out an adjustment to unsettle him in the scrums? If they did, I hope Ledesma can work that one out. This is the issue with him being a bit green in terms of internationals - there are a lot of wily campaigners who might try it on with him. I hope Ledesma can help him get better at dealing with what is thrown at him. His work around the park was good.
Slipper - no problems with the scrum. Good work elsewhere (aside from one - ? - dropped ball)
I'm happy whichever of these guys starts.
2. Moore - Chieka should have replaced him much earlier. His throwing has not been great for the last two weeks, and he looked fatigued to me. TPN is at a similar level to Moore at any time, but a fresh TPN is way better than a tired Moore.
Start Moore, bring on TPN earlier.
3. Kepu - No fancy footwork for a try, but solid work in the set peice and around the ground.
Holmes - It is great to have a replacement at pretty much the same level as the starter, when it comes to the set piece especially. Another dropped ball just when we didn't need it, but still good.
Start Kepu. Give Holmes plenty of game time.
4. Skelton - a polarising prescence if ever there was. When he was replaced, the score was 13-6. The lineout was not yet a disaster, and he had been tackling, running, and clearing bodies very effectively. The question is, was his effectiveness in one area enough to justify our not being able to pressure the NZ lineout as we might have been able to with another jumper?
Looks like more of a "finisher" to me
Mumm - Played quite well again, but his miss on Milner-Skudder didn't look good (although there are a few locks who have been, and will be, skinned by that Kiwi flier).
Bench spot very likely, as he covers 4,5,6
5. Horwill - Got through a lot of work. Called the lineout pretty well. Big miss on Nonu (although, as with Mumm, Nonu in a bit of space vs a lock usually means the lock eats dust). Ideally, we don't allow these kinds of mismatches.
Douglas - he got 20 mins and didn't look out of place. A replacement lock isn't going to overturn a 30+ point defecit, but the scrums and lineout both went well with him on. He is a big unit and I expect him to make the squad.
If Simmons is fit, he starts. His partner is either Douglas or Horwill. The other fights it out with Skelton for a bench spot.
6. Fardy - another strong performance. Probably want him for 80 mins in the big matches.
7. Hooper - played quite well. Given what he has done over the last few weeks, we expect a lot from him. He didn't shine in the way he has previously, but that doesn't mean he was bad. Still one of our best, so start him in the big matches.
8. Palu - again, he played for 40 mins and did all you'd expect - ran, tackled, cleared out, all with power. Didn't manage a direct big hit - would have liked to see one of those on Nonu. Half time 13-6. We were not dominated at all in any aspect. we even had territorial superiority.
Pocock - not the imperious display of last week. Like everyone else, he even dropped some ball. Having said that, this guy must start any big match we want to win. Other teams may predict this, but that doesn't mean they can deal with it (we can all predict that Retallic, McCaw, Read, Smith, Smith, Smith, Nonu, Carter etc will start, because they are clearly the best. That is no reason for them not to start in case they are 'worked out'). Also, Hooper and Pocock are capable of playing whatever gameplan Chieka wants (well certainly have a better chance than any other candidate) as long as the lineout is well covered by 4, 5, 6.
9. White - a good game (also joins the 'burnt by Nonu' club). His accuracy is good. His speed is a little, um, hang on a second, slow. His boot is generally good if used at the right time.
Could we improve White's speed, or Phipps' accuracy please? I think having one of them on the bench is the safer option for the future. Who starts depends on gameplan. I'm not ruling Genia out at all, it is just a question of how his injury goes, and whether he gets back up to speed in time.
10. Cooper - another man who divides opinion. For me, he did just one very bad thing: high tackle - penalty try - yellow card. To be fair, at least he was there to have a crack (as opposed to Mumm jogging on the spot after the big miss on Skudder - hill sprints for you this week budddy!), and if he had not flung out an arm, there would be plenty lining up to have a pop at him. Next time, please stay on the field Quade. Until that moment, I thought Cooper played well - better than any other number 10 contender this year. Yes, he threw a pass out of touch, but I'd prefer he fight to free his arms in the tackle and try something rather than be missing in action. I agree with leaving him off after the yellow card, as it gave Chieka the chance to see what another candidate had to offer - by then the game was likely gone anyway.
To'omua - if Cooper did some of the shit To'omua did in this match, the carry on would crash the internet. It was one match, but based on that showing, he starts at 12 or rides the pine for me. Something for the post match review: when you are a man down, don't try to exploit the overlap with crap short kicks - it will only benefit the other team (as they are the ones with the man advantage).
I would start Cooper again if it was a question of his play up to the YC.
11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - pre print his name on the starters sheet. Not perfect. Not as awesome as he has been. There was lots of good work from him.
12. To'omua - mostly solid until he had to move in due to Cooper's YC. Kicking was very bad.
Giteau - did well again when he came on, thankfully not at 9. Both of these guys are in the 23 for me. One starts, he other on the bench.
13. Kuridrani - Didn't do much. Maybe didn't get much opportunity. I'd like to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have a run at 13, just to see how he goes, and in case of an injury. Maybe it would bring out TK's best knowing he is not a lock in for the position. Deep down, I know he is our best option when he is at his best.
14. Speight - didn't do loads, but it was all pretty good. I'd like to see him getting the ball more as he is a dangerous runner. Possibly not a starter, but shades Tomane for a spot in the squad for my money.
15. Folau - Great in the air. Great running game. I hope Chieka has been saving the contestable attacking kicks, cross field kicks, and short restarts for the RWC. We've got to use all of Folau's skills as often as possible. Very nice of Perenara to show our playmakers how to do it.
Beale - seems to have the 23 jersey sewn up. Nothing from this match would suggest otherwise.
Things that shit me, beyond losing, Conrad Smith's dangerous and illegal play on the kick chase (on Cooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)), and stuff already mentioned:
- going for the lineout 3 times from the penalty at the end (also, no YC for the repeated infringements at that time - I've seen them given out for less, although admittedly, not to the Ritchie McCaw and the Kiwis at Eden Park). With the scrum dominating, why not try that? Or just tap and go?
- not enough bodies in motion being found with good passes out front
- not enough of Speight, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) etc running inside lines (at least make the opposition make a choice rather than telegraphing where the ball is going)
- kicking badly ie not out or contested. Please sort it out guys. I really think that with Simmons back, we could have a crack at opposition lineouts a bit.
- kick offs: either short for Folau or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to contest, or make sure that when the ball lands, Hooper is on hand to smash someone
- Chieka's use of the bench. He made the ballsy call with the team sheet, but didn't roll the dice with his bench. I'd say play Palu, and even Skelton, for 30 mins then ring the changes. Replace the front row round half time. They can always come back if there is an injury.
I think I am done. Sorry about that.
As an aside, Ireland just scraped past Scotland - neither looked too impressive, but you never know. Ireland are apparently number 2 in the world...
)Overall, we played at a similar level to last week, but instead of wild passes and pop gun kicks, we managed to miss straight up tackles and make a few disastrous short kicks. The Kiwis, on the other hand, lifted their game to its usual high standard, and they added Ma Nonu to their team (looking forward to his retirement).
1. Sio - did the Kiwis work out an adjustment to unsettle him in the scrums? If they did, I hope Ledesma can work that one out. This is the issue with him being a bit green in terms of internationals - there are a lot of wily campaigners who might try it on with him. I hope Ledesma can help him get better at dealing with what is thrown at him. His work around the park was good.
Slipper - no problems with the scrum. Good work elsewhere (aside from one - ? - dropped ball)
I'm happy whichever of these guys starts.
2. Moore - Chieka should have replaced him much earlier. His throwing has not been great for the last two weeks, and he looked fatigued to me. TPN is at a similar level to Moore at any time, but a fresh TPN is way better than a tired Moore.
Start Moore, bring on TPN earlier.
3. Kepu - No fancy footwork for a try, but solid work in the set peice and around the ground.
Holmes - It is great to have a replacement at pretty much the same level as the starter, when it comes to the set piece especially. Another dropped ball just when we didn't need it, but still good.
Start Kepu. Give Holmes plenty of game time.
4. Skelton - a polarising prescence if ever there was. When he was replaced, the score was 13-6. The lineout was not yet a disaster, and he had been tackling, running, and clearing bodies very effectively. The question is, was his effectiveness in one area enough to justify our not being able to pressure the NZ lineout as we might have been able to with another jumper?
Looks like more of a "finisher" to me
Mumm - Played quite well again, but his miss on Milner-Skudder didn't look good (although there are a few locks who have been, and will be, skinned by that Kiwi flier).
Bench spot very likely, as he covers 4,5,6
5. Horwill - Got through a lot of work. Called the lineout pretty well. Big miss on Nonu (although, as with Mumm, Nonu in a bit of space vs a lock usually means the lock eats dust). Ideally, we don't allow these kinds of mismatches.
Douglas - he got 20 mins and didn't look out of place. A replacement lock isn't going to overturn a 30+ point defecit, but the scrums and lineout both went well with him on. He is a big unit and I expect him to make the squad.
If Simmons is fit, he starts. His partner is either Douglas or Horwill. The other fights it out with Skelton for a bench spot.
6. Fardy - another strong performance. Probably want him for 80 mins in the big matches.
7. Hooper - played quite well. Given what he has done over the last few weeks, we expect a lot from him. He didn't shine in the way he has previously, but that doesn't mean he was bad. Still one of our best, so start him in the big matches.
8. Palu - again, he played for 40 mins and did all you'd expect - ran, tackled, cleared out, all with power. Didn't manage a direct big hit - would have liked to see one of those on Nonu. Half time 13-6. We were not dominated at all in any aspect. we even had territorial superiority.
Pocock - not the imperious display of last week. Like everyone else, he even dropped some ball. Having said that, this guy must start any big match we want to win. Other teams may predict this, but that doesn't mean they can deal with it (we can all predict that Retallic, McCaw, Read, Smith, Smith, Smith, Nonu, Carter etc will start, because they are clearly the best. That is no reason for them not to start in case they are 'worked out'). Also, Hooper and Pocock are capable of playing whatever gameplan Chieka wants (well certainly have a better chance than any other candidate) as long as the lineout is well covered by 4, 5, 6.
9. White - a good game (also joins the 'burnt by Nonu' club). His accuracy is good. His speed is a little, um, hang on a second, slow. His boot is generally good if used at the right time.
Could we improve White's speed, or Phipps' accuracy please? I think having one of them on the bench is the safer option for the future. Who starts depends on gameplan. I'm not ruling Genia out at all, it is just a question of how his injury goes, and whether he gets back up to speed in time.
10. Cooper - another man who divides opinion. For me, he did just one very bad thing: high tackle - penalty try - yellow card. To be fair, at least he was there to have a crack (as opposed to Mumm jogging on the spot after the big miss on Skudder - hill sprints for you this week budddy!), and if he had not flung out an arm, there would be plenty lining up to have a pop at him. Next time, please stay on the field Quade. Until that moment, I thought Cooper played well - better than any other number 10 contender this year. Yes, he threw a pass out of touch, but I'd prefer he fight to free his arms in the tackle and try something rather than be missing in action. I agree with leaving him off after the yellow card, as it gave Chieka the chance to see what another candidate had to offer - by then the game was likely gone anyway.
To'omua - if Cooper did some of the shit To'omua did in this match, the carry on would crash the internet. It was one match, but based on that showing, he starts at 12 or rides the pine for me. Something for the post match review: when you are a man down, don't try to exploit the overlap with crap short kicks - it will only benefit the other team (as they are the ones with the man advantage).
I would start Cooper again if it was a question of his play up to the YC.
11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - pre print his name on the starters sheet. Not perfect. Not as awesome as he has been. There was lots of good work from him.
12. To'omua - mostly solid until he had to move in due to Cooper's YC. Kicking was very bad.
Giteau - did well again when he came on, thankfully not at 9. Both of these guys are in the 23 for me. One starts, he other on the bench.
13. Kuridrani - Didn't do much. Maybe didn't get much opportunity. I'd like to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have a run at 13, just to see how he goes, and in case of an injury. Maybe it would bring out TK's best knowing he is not a lock in for the position. Deep down, I know he is our best option when he is at his best.
14. Speight - didn't do loads, but it was all pretty good. I'd like to see him getting the ball more as he is a dangerous runner. Possibly not a starter, but shades Tomane for a spot in the squad for my money.
15. Folau - Great in the air. Great running game. I hope Chieka has been saving the contestable attacking kicks, cross field kicks, and short restarts for the RWC. We've got to use all of Folau's skills as often as possible. Very nice of Perenara to show our playmakers how to do it.
Beale - seems to have the 23 jersey sewn up. Nothing from this match would suggest otherwise.
Things that shit me, beyond losing, Conrad Smith's dangerous and illegal play on the kick chase (on Cooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)), and stuff already mentioned:
- going for the lineout 3 times from the penalty at the end (also, no YC for the repeated infringements at that time - I've seen them given out for less, although admittedly, not to the Ritchie McCaw and the Kiwis at Eden Park). With the scrum dominating, why not try that? Or just tap and go?
- not enough bodies in motion being found with good passes out front
- not enough of Speight, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) etc running inside lines (at least make the opposition make a choice rather than telegraphing where the ball is going)
- kicking badly ie not out or contested. Please sort it out guys. I really think that with Simmons back, we could have a crack at opposition lineouts a bit.
- kick offs: either short for Folau or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to contest, or make sure that when the ball lands, Hooper is on hand to smash someone
- Chieka's use of the bench. He made the ballsy call with the team sheet, but didn't roll the dice with his bench. I'd say play Palu, and even Skelton, for 30 mins then ring the changes. Replace the front row round half time. They can always come back if there is an injury.
I think I am done. Sorry about that.
As an aside, Ireland just scraped past Scotland - neither looked too impressive, but you never know. Ireland are apparently number 2 in the world...
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
No need for me to give my views on the game, it's all pretty much been said.
I'd agree that Palu and speight stay at home. Both were there to make an impact and neither did. Palu is done and speight will get his turn next year. By the way @slim, he has now played 3 tests.
As for our best 23 I think last week pretty much nailed it except for Simmons in for one of the starting locks or Douglas if his hand is still fucked. And the 10-12 axis is still a query, and I think Horne on Mitchell's wing.
The stanza from KB (Kurtley Beale) was one of his best in gold defensively, that work we have seen them doing in those padded suits must have helped his confidence, those two tackles he made early on were belters!
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I'd agree that Palu and speight stay at home. Both were there to make an impact and neither did. Palu is done and speight will get his turn next year. By the way @slim, he has now played 3 tests.
As for our best 23 I think last week pretty much nailed it except for Simmons in for one of the starting locks or Douglas if his hand is still fucked. And the 10-12 axis is still a query, and I think Horne on Mitchell's wing.
The stanza from KB (Kurtley Beale) was one of his best in gold defensively, that work we have seen them doing in those padded suits must have helped his confidence, those two tackles he made early on were belters!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
redstragic
Alan Cameron (40)
Well done Ritchie, Dan, ma'a, Conrad, Kevin and the rest who will not play in NZ again on their legendary careers.
It was a bitter pill to swallow to watch last night but also a fitting end for such amazing players.
See you in England.
It was a bitter pill to swallow to watch last night but also a fitting end for such amazing players.
See you in England.
terry j
Ron Walden (29)
Game aside, the most disappointing thing for me was after the game. Stage was set, explanations were made. And the australian captain is asked to the stage, mumbles a few more platitudes about how the plan went wrong, that we had prepared well all week same old, same old, and shuffles off the platform.
Bloody hell, how about growing just a bit as a person and bloody well acknowledge the All Black greats (and they are) that were being celebrated for what they have brought to the great game of rugby?
I know for a fact had the roles been reversed, and Ritchie had just been defeated he WOULD have had the graciousness, greatness and humility to rise above his personal disappointment to honestly acknowledge an opponents contribution to the game over a stellar career.
It galls me that Australian rugby cannot make similar statements for opposition GREAT/S.
Bloody hell, how about growing just a bit as a person and bloody well acknowledge the All Black greats (and they are) that were being celebrated for what they have brought to the great game of rugby?
I know for a fact had the roles been reversed, and Ritchie had just been defeated he WOULD have had the graciousness, greatness and humility to rise above his personal disappointment to honestly acknowledge an opponents contribution to the game over a stellar career.
It galls me that Australian rugby cannot make similar statements for opposition GREAT/S.
MrTabua
Larry Dwyer (12)
I wish Ritchie would just get on with it and cure cancer too.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
Good job AB's and bad luck our boys. Chins up and move on.
The comments on the game have pretty much covered everything I have to say about the match itself.
So some non-match comments.
Wtf was Messam doing getting involved in that scuffle during the match? He should receive some sort of sanction I feel. Can't have that happening.
The crowd annoyed me. The booing shits me to tears and I hate it wherever it happens. And I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but someone threw a stubby at Folau as he scored his try!?! Seriously? Pull your fucking head in whatever fuckwit did that! I was mostly amazed that you could still get stubbies at a stadium these days.
The comments on the game have pretty much covered everything I have to say about the match itself.
So some non-match comments.
Wtf was Messam doing getting involved in that scuffle during the match? He should receive some sort of sanction I feel. Can't have that happening.
The crowd annoyed me. The booing shits me to tears and I hate it wherever it happens. And I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but someone threw a stubby at Folau as he scored his try!?! Seriously? Pull your fucking head in whatever fuckwit did that! I was mostly amazed that you could still get stubbies at a stadium these days.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
The ABs certainly lifted their intensity last night, while we we off the pace. The multiple team changes were an error in judgement from Cheika - I get where he is coming from in having a number of players who can slot into a role, but this wasn't the game to do it. The match day 23 from Sydney should have played and any run on changes should have come from that squad.
It seems to me that last night has undone much of the good work done over the past couple of months.
It seems to me that last night has undone much of the good work done over the past couple of months.
Well that was a reality check
I said in an earlier post that this may have been a good game to be dropped for and unfortunately I was right.
The interesting thing to me was how little rugby the ABs played for long sections of the game, they were prepared to absorb all that the Wobs could throw at them and counter punch. The week before they played more rugby, were turned over and counter punched themselves.
On the Wobs, I think that Chieka got the balance wrong in the forwards, we need those three lineout options to be competitive or we have to shorten up the lineout and lose options.
On the game:
Skelton does many good things, but the balance needs to be got right around him
I thought the pack on the ground in the first half were quite competitive but ........
White was just too slow to clear the ball
We simple gave the ABs too much time to realign their defense
We were too slow on attack full stop, there wasn't the same urgency we saw in the first half to get in the defensive line to get into position to be an attacking threat
Too much of the running was one out and we were getting smashed behind the advantage line
Cooper? The ABs hunted him as they always do, they kicked to him, isolated out there as the second 15 and smashed him whenever they could. He isn't flattening up at all and his only "weapon" seems to be the long cut out pass, something every side watches for now
The backs as a unit were average and have been most of the season. Not enough work is being done off the ball to run decent lines, and it is all happening too far behind the gain line
I am quite amazed how much Folau is getting taken out in the air, I thought that wasn't legal, if that is the new standard .......................... someone is going to get very hurt
I said in an earlier post that this may have been a good game to be dropped for and unfortunately I was right.
The interesting thing to me was how little rugby the ABs played for long sections of the game, they were prepared to absorb all that the Wobs could throw at them and counter punch. The week before they played more rugby, were turned over and counter punched themselves.
On the Wobs, I think that Chieka got the balance wrong in the forwards, we need those three lineout options to be competitive or we have to shorten up the lineout and lose options.
On the game:
Skelton does many good things, but the balance needs to be got right around him
I thought the pack on the ground in the first half were quite competitive but ........
White was just too slow to clear the ball
We simple gave the ABs too much time to realign their defense
We were too slow on attack full stop, there wasn't the same urgency we saw in the first half to get in the defensive line to get into position to be an attacking threat
Too much of the running was one out and we were getting smashed behind the advantage line
Cooper? The ABs hunted him as they always do, they kicked to him, isolated out there as the second 15 and smashed him whenever they could. He isn't flattening up at all and his only "weapon" seems to be the long cut out pass, something every side watches for now
The backs as a unit were average and have been most of the season. Not enough work is being done off the ball to run decent lines, and it is all happening too far behind the gain line
I am quite amazed how much Folau is getting taken out in the air, I thought that wasn't legal, if that is the new standard .......................... someone is going to get very hurt
drewprint
John Solomon (38)
I distinctly remember him putting on a monster cleanout on someone. Read I think. In a match short of Wallabies highlights that was nice to see.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Agree. Two YCs, and for the same offence, in a short Test season is inexcusable, period, and utterly reckless. This latest was wholly unnecessary.
I'll offer some comments later, but, as I posted before the game, Cooper's real level of confidence is shot, he has lost a sense of what player he wants to be, so his real strengths are less realised, whilst his anxious mistakes multiply alarmingly.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Actually it was probably more excusable than the one in Argentina. That was utterly stupid - the guy didn't even have the ball.
Let's apologise to Mr Boudjellal and get Quade's bag packed, hmm?
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Yep last weeks 23 closer to the mark....
Giteau, Mumm and Pocock (with Hooper) need to start.
I actually had Horwill starting ahead of Mumm but with the latters game last night when he came on plus watching closely mumms performance last week he is definitely to my mind the player to partner simmons if fit
Between Phipps and White as to start / bench but probably favouring Phipps to start with speedier service (and assuming last weeks bad game is just one of those off games he had).
Time to see how To'omua at 10 and Giteau at 12 plays out. Or even Giteau at 10 and To'omua at 12. As got to look at that before we keep recycling the Foley / Cooper show at 10 which has just not worked to date.
Kuridrani's patchy form a worry but not about to drop him - as not had a shocker but not the performance we are use to expecting from him.
Mitchell vs Horne for other wing to my mind. As who the heck would seriously consider leaving AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) out of a starting 15 as along with Folau been our most consistent and best back, and indeed for many years now.
Spreight doesn't offer enough off the ball compared to Mitchell and Horne. Leave him behind and for next year.
Giteau, Mumm and Pocock (with Hooper) need to start.
I actually had Horwill starting ahead of Mumm but with the latters game last night when he came on plus watching closely mumms performance last week he is definitely to my mind the player to partner simmons if fit
Between Phipps and White as to start / bench but probably favouring Phipps to start with speedier service (and assuming last weeks bad game is just one of those off games he had).
Time to see how To'omua at 10 and Giteau at 12 plays out. Or even Giteau at 10 and To'omua at 12. As got to look at that before we keep recycling the Foley / Cooper show at 10 which has just not worked to date.
Kuridrani's patchy form a worry but not about to drop him - as not had a shocker but not the performance we are use to expecting from him.
Mitchell vs Horne for other wing to my mind. As who the heck would seriously consider leaving AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) out of a starting 15 as along with Folau been our most consistent and best back, and indeed for many years now.
Spreight doesn't offer enough off the ball compared to Mitchell and Horne. Leave him behind and for next year.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Yes that was the most perplexing thing for me as we struggled with the lineout last week with 3 line out options yet we go into the game with 2 line out options. Mumm as 3rd line out option is the go as also has the ticker to keep up with the games pace which Skelton showed last night he didn't.
Skelton at best bench option with 6/2 bench, not sure could have him on the bench with a 5/2 bench
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
But rugbynutter your hole view on To'omua or Giteau being better at 10 than Foley and Cooper is based on them not getting 2 starting games to look worse.
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