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England v NZ & Aust 2015

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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Burns 69 in his ODI debut. Amazing what young players can do when given the opportunity isn't it? Just imagine..................................;)
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Come on. He didn't take his opportunity in the tests vs India. Just imagine if he did.. no Voges for the WI/Eng tour and this thread is half as many pages.

Great to see him do well.

This is the myth being peddled by the Voges cheer squad, but it's just that a myth.

For the record, Joe Burns was selected for the 3rd and 4th tests of the 4 test series against India. In the Boxing Day test in Melbourne he scored 13 and 9 - not great but in the next test in Sydney he scored 58 and 66. As the scorecard for the Sydney test shows, he was the last batsman dismissed as Australia were chasing quick runs for a declaration.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/754743.html

What were people expecting from the guy - a century in each innings? What the pass mark now for guys in their first couple of tests?

I'd have thought that on any reasonable thought process Burns scored a pass for those two tests and deserved to be in the West Indies.

It beggars belief that after those tests he couldn't even be selected in THE SQUAD to go to the West Indies as selectors preferred S Marsh who has had numerous chances to prove himself and A Voges who had never previously been considered for test selection after 13 years in first class cricket.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
I agree with you mostly and have for a majority of the Ashes. He should have been persisted with and I was surprised he went from in the XI to out of the XV.

I really think the team and selectors have learnt a lot from the whole situation and it's time everyone moved on.
 
T

Train Without a Station

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QH you have to consider that in those same 2 tests:

* the much maligned Watson scored 2 fifties (one was 81) - 166 runs @ 41.5
* Marsh scored 2 fifties (one was a 99) - 205 runs @ 51.25
* Rogers scored 4 fifties (one was 95) - 277 runs @ 69.25
* Warner scored 40 and one century - 145 runs @ 36.25
* Smith scored two centuries (one was 192) and a fifty - 394 runs @ 98.5
* Haddin scored one fifty and 30* - 108 runs @ 54
* Harris scored one 50 - 120 runs @ 40

Was Burns returns of of 146 runs @ 36.5 good in the context of those two tests? Not exactly. He basically came in under no pressure every time and did well in a team where every single player did well.

It was clearly a batters feast and in those 2 tests Burns scored less runs than every other Top 6 option except for one, who is an established opener.

I would have taken him again, but it was hardly a massive error leaving him behind.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
^^^It is when the alternatives are a 35 year old debutant and another player who had had numerous chances to prove himself and failed when the pressure was on.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
The 35 year old debutante was better in Sheffield Shield though and across the recent seasons in general.

Voges knock in WI when the rest of the attack crumbled vindicated the decision. Burns had not really shown that ability.

What we learnt in England was that our batting in general (including the inferior options left at home) were not up to the task.
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Burns 69 in his ODI debut. Amazing what young players can do when given the opportunity isn't it? Just imagine............;)


Did you watch his innings last night?

He looked fantastic til he reached the mid 30s then he really struggled. Lost all composure and was struggling for technique through the 40s and 50s. He was out on 61 but was brought back after a no-ball, he then scratched another 8 runs before a very weak dismissal. We were scoring over 7 an over and looking at a total of 300+ at that point.

I have been advocating for Burns' selection for at least 12 months now but it is alarming that gets out without converting the 50 into big tons at this level.

He's one we should persevere with but I don't think you can argue he made the most of his opportunity last night (particularly when you consider the quality of pitch and opposition).

I think last night's result covered a lot of cracks. IMO our middle order is still a huge concern and Maxwell + Bailey is not the solution.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
^^Maybe had the selectors shown the confidence in him after the Sydney test by picking him in the WI/England test squad his game would now be more developed. Conditions were difficult and it was the players who came in after Burns and Warner were dismissed who were the problem.

Gee your a hard marker if 69 runs off 70 balls is considered to be "struggling". Warner scored 84 off 80, so not particularly much between them.

Bailey and Maxwell failed - but the game was a rain-reduced 40 over one, so 222 is a pretty good score off the overs faced. (It's just under 6 an over)
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I'm not sure that one innings from last night showed us too much, but I did watch Joe play in the home series against India and thought he got better with each innings. A bit nervous to start with but I thought he was starting to play pretty well by the end.

In any case you'd have to think he'd be a massive chance to play this summer and rightly so. Khawaja and Bancroft would also be on the cusp. Add Smith and Warner to the list and we've got a young and pretty talented top and middle order to go forward with.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
^^^^Agree, although it showed us that he is an international cricketer and follows on from 2 half centuries out of 4 test innings.

I also agree about Khawaja and Bancroft.
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Bit of a nothing game so far.

Couple of decent wickets, Warner injured, scoreboard ticking along at a reasonable rate. With the France-Scotland game, delayed coverage of Glasgow - Scarlets and the USA-Wobblies game back to back to back from 5am, probably gonna abandon watching the game.
 

Pedrolicus

Dick Tooth (41)
Australia should go 300+ always takes a good effort to chase down. Especially with starc hooping yorkers in. Smith is a big wicket but is really set up well at 187/3 after 36 overs.

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waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)

I'm leaning towards self-defence on the basis that if you see a cricket ball coming at you your natural reaction is gonna be to either get out of the way or try to fend it off. He's probably out to the letter of the law but I think Smith should have withdrawn the appeal. Certainly he's now in the position of not being able to complain if England appeal for anything remotely similar in the near future.

FTR Aus 309/7 beat England 245 by 64 runs with 45 balls remaining.
 

Pedrolicus

Dick Tooth (41)
Unfortunate but out. His hand is pretty far away from his body. Stokes main issue was taking a few steps down the pitch after he played that.

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Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
To borrow from soccer, ball to hand and I could see some reason for withdrawing the appeal. But hand to ball like that, when he was going to be run out if he didn't stop the ball and it's out.

Would have no issue at all if situation was reversed.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
That's out. He prevented a legitimate shy at the stumps. Same as the aforementioned Waugh incident. I don't blame Stokes for doing what he did but it's still out.
 
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