• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Japan Super Rugby team

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
That's not likely to exacerbate a bureaucratic mess is it? Forcing players to shift away from places they're playing good rugby to potentially pay them less, under a seemingly shambolic organisation, with so many weird factors coming out the wazzoo. Plus I don't know the make up of the Top League, but I'd assume teams would be based all around the country? Right now the Japanese boys spend 4 or 5 months in Australia/New Zealand, then 7 or 8 in their hometown playing and training for the local side. I'd assume moving to Tokyo for presumably longer than those 4 or 5 months, along with half your home games in Singapore and long tours of South Africa and Australasia. Whereas for say Shota, Leitch or Tanaka previously, it's been 8 games in the adopted home city, another 4 in the adopted country, then another 2 just one country over, with only a 2 game tour to South Africa.

Perhaps I've blatantly misread or exaggerated the situation, but Japan isn't Argentina. They've achieved their 2nd win in 8 world cups, albeit it's a goodun, and they have an opportunity to grab at least 3rd, if not 2nd with their 2 easiest games coming up over the next 2 weekends. The Argies have been strong competitors since 1995 at least. In the 20 years since, a metric buttload of players signed for European sides, they then reached a semi final in 2007, got into the Rugby Championship in 2012, and are only now playing hardball, as a fairly well developed Rugby nation. They can't afford, at this stage, to miss out on the best players because they'd choose to either play for another Super Side, or in a small handful of cases, opt out altogether.
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
Aussie teams should now scrap that separate contracting system for Japanese players. They can now play in Super Rugby for their own nation. Guys like Tui, Tanaka, Inagaki & Leitch, should be staying there if they want to keep playing for Japan (like the Arg team is doing).

There are those aswell who have played Super Rugby, like Horie, Sau and Tatekawa that should also play for them, considering they were happy to player over here (though I appreciate there are sometimes deals done between Top 14 teams and ours).
If they play elsewhere it allows Japan to have a more than one player competing for a spot in the national team.
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
So we have Japan and Argentina entering super rugby conferences next year which gotta be good (noting Japan may have teetching problems but from commercial perspective we want this to work)..

Been keen to have pacific island countries join at next stage of super rugby expansion.Candidate for me is fiji given seven's brand and pedigree to build on for 'commercial' success

Is this realistic or just a pipe dream for me?

I would rather another Argentina team, 2 x USA teams and 2 x Canada teams and have an Americas conference.

given the politics involved in the IRB it could be beneficial for SANZAR to run a competition that involves as many nations together, it allows for a massive number of votes at international level.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I reckon a good way forward for World Rugby to improve the Tier 2 nations is to provide funding for contracts in leagues around the world.

If World Rugby paid a set amount for each side in Super Rugby, Top 14, Pro 12 etc. to sign an additional player to their squad who was capped for a Tier 2 country it would provide more pathways for those players.

You'd need to set the salary level at a range that was reasonable for that competition but wasn't what their top players who already get contracted in those leagues are able to demand.

One element of World Rugby's development of Tier 2 countries is certainly direct investment in those countries but undoubtedly the thing that is bridging the gap at RWC time is the number of players within those sides who are playing in the best leagues around the world.

You'd have to ensure those players were already capped so it couldn't be a pathway for Tier 1 countries to recruit players to eventually play for them under the residency rule.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I reckon a good way forward for World Rugby to improve the Tier 2 nations is to provide funding for contracts in leagues around the world.

If World Rugby paid a set amount for each side in Super Rugby, Top 14, Pro 12 etc. to sign an additional player to their squad who was capped for a Tier 2 country it would provide more pathways for those players.

You'd need to set the salary level at a range that was reasonable for that competition but wasn't what their top players who already get contracted in those leagues are able to demand.

One element of World Rugby's development of Tier 2 countries is certainly direct investment in those countries but undoubtedly the thing that is bridging the gap at RWC time is the number of players within those sides who are playing in the best leagues around the world.

You'd have to ensure those players were already capped so it couldn't be a pathway for Tier 1 countries to recruit players to eventually play for them under the residency rule.


I personally don't agree, i think such a proposal creates a false economy and leaves the union reliant on the governing body to prop up professionalism in the country. I also don't think that there is any shortage of professional rugby opportunities for pacific islanders in european rugby. Australia/New Zealand obviously have regulations in place which restriction opportunity, but thats a bureaucratic decision, not a financial one or due to lack of demand.

I remember hearing during one of the RWC matches that out of the current Fijian side, only 2 players were technically 'amateurs' and the rest were professional players from across the globe.

My personal opinion is that the best thing the IRB can do for the Tier 2 Nations is to continue to subsidise tournaments like the Pacific Nations Cup/JWC/Schoolboys, but not through player payments rather by covering the logistical cost. The countries have reduced overheads which then means that any money earned through sponsorship/broadcast rights/crowds etc can be invested back into the game as the governing body sees fit.

I also believe that the IRB needs to mandate that the ARU/NZRU play a test match against a pacific island team every calendar year, so for example, New Zealand played Samoa in 2015, Australia play Fiji in 2016, New Zealand play Tonga in 2016 etc etc. So in a 4 year cycle, the pacific island teams should play both the Wallabies and All Blacks.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
I would rather another Argentina team, 2 x USA teams and 2 x Canada teams and have an Americas conference.

given the politics involved in the IRB it could be beneficial for SANZAR to run a competition that involves as many nations together, it allows for a massive number of votes at international level.

Geographically makes sense...still would like to see Fiji join Australian conference
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I personally don't agree, i think such a proposal creates a false economy and leaves the union reliant on the governing body to prop up professionalism in the country. I also don't think that there is any shortage of professional rugby opportunities for pacific islanders in european rugby. Australia/New Zealand obviously have regulations in place which restriction opportunity, but thats a bureaucratic decision, not a financial one or due to lack of demand.

I remember hearing during one of the RWC matches that out of the current Fijian side, only 2 players were technically 'amateurs' and the rest were professional players from across the globe.

My personal opinion is that the best thing the IRB can do for the Tier 2 Nations is to continue to subsidise tournaments like the Pacific Nations Cup/JWC/Schoolboys, but not through player payments rather by covering the logistical cost. The countries have reduced overheads which then means that any money earned through sponsorship/broadcast rights/crowds etc can be invested back into the game as the governing body sees fit.

I also believe that the IRB needs to mandate that the ARU/NZRU play a test match against a pacific island team every calendar year, so for example, New Zealand played Samoa in 2015, Australia play Fiji in 2016, New Zealand play Tonga in 2016 etc etc. So in a 4 year cycle, the pacific island teams should play both the Wallabies and All Blacks.
I completely agree with supporting 2nd tier comps and helping enable tests between first and second tier teams on an annual basis.

My main premise on the contracting idea was to set it at a salary level that provides more pro contracts to players from second tier countries.

Almost all Fiji players might have pro contracts now but what about Tonga, Georgia, Romania, Namibia etc?

It seems like a cheap way to make a difference at the pointy end of the game in terms of overall competitiveness. The issue of depth tends to become more and more profound the further you move down the rankings.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
If they play elsewhere it allows Japan to have a more than one player competing for a spot in the national team.

Longer term, I'd agree.

But the first priority should be to ensure the Super Rugby venture doesn't fail.

If it's good enough for Argentina to start with, then it's good enough for Japan. While the Argies look rock solid, the Japanese team still seems very shaky IMO.
 

RunnerGunner

Frank Nicholson (4)

I also believe that the IRB needs to mandate that the ARU/NZRU play a test match against a pacific island team every calendar year, so for example, New Zealand played Samoa in 2015, Australia play Fiji in 2016, New Zealand play Tonga in 2016 etc etc. So in a 4 year cycle, the pacific island teams should play both the Wallabies and All Blacks.

I agree with this. World Rugby need to underwrite more T2 v T1 fixtures. They need to go in there and rent the Sydney Football Stadium/Aviva/Twickenham et al and take some of the risk from T1 who have shown themselves to be adverse to it and would rather have the Barbarians play.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
New Japanese team will be known as the Sunwolves
1FABBC72-E620-851E-2425805DA1F5C42C_newsportrait.jpg

They'll play four home matches in Singapore.

Name is from sun as in land of the rising sun and they want to adopt the ethos of wolves, 'pack hunting and protecting each other'.

Feel like only Japan could pull this name and logo off, I now have a second favourite team.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
Haha I don't mind the name! Something different. Not so sure about the logo though.

And pretty sure it's just 3 games in Singapore. Only 3 in the draw anyway.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
Haha I don't mind the name! Something different. Not so sure about the logo though.

And pretty sure it's just 3 games in Singapore. Only 3 in the draw anyway.
Yup you're right, I read incorrectly, thanks.

Going off the logo, will they have a similar jersey to the national team?
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Its hard to really know what to make of it, In terms of appeal to an Australian market it seems decent enough. But Japanese marketing has always been on a completely different level to what we are used to.
 

upthereds#!

Ken Catchpole (46)
Any other rumours of players joining them apart from Quirk? They could do worse then target some of the 'unattached/ released' players going around for that season...
Ben Whittaker
Lachie Turner
Beau Robinson
Telusa Vaeinu
Tom Kingston
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
Does anyone know how this team will be constructed exactly? Is it any club players in Japan - basically a national side, or a side consisting of players that don't play for any top tier clubs - like Pampas was for Argentina in the Vodacom Cup, or is it just one of the existing clubs with a different name?

Also, matches in Singapore should be interesting, and wet probably.
 

Tigs Man

Allen Oxlade (6)
Think it is anyone they want:

So basically National team plus maybe the expats living in Japan already.

Like
Bekker
Fourie
du Preez
Barnes etc

They might nick a couple players from Aus/NZ academies with Japanese background I reckon.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
Does anyone know how this team will be constructed exactly? Is it any club players in Japan - basically a national side, or a side consisting of players that don't play for any top tier clubs - like Pampas was for Argentina in the Vodacom Cup, or is it just one of the existing clubs with a different name?

Also, matches in Singapore should be interesting, and wet probably.


It's a separate franchise operated by the JRFU. It'll be a mix of national team players and imports. Not sure what, if any relationship it will have with the Companies involved in the Top League. Hopefully they're not hostile to it.

And the Singapore Stadium has a roof so should be fine in that sense. The biggest challenge will be attracting crowds.
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
It's a separate franchise operated by the JRFU. It'll be a mix of national team players and imports. Not sure what, if any relationship it will have with the Companies involved in the Top League. Hopefully they're not hostile to it.

And the Singapore Stadium has a roof so should be fine in that sense. The biggest challenge will be attracting crowds.


Thanks. So pretty much the same as the Pampas.
 
Top