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RWC: AUS v ENG (Twickenham): POOL A; 6am (AEDT) Sunday 4 October

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No4918

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Anyone know more about the investigation into the Pom coaching staff for approaching the referees at half time?
 
Tex

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
He deserves a few weeks for it, imo. Bakkies Botha got away with it for years, but it's a catastrophic injury just waiting to happen and should be rubbed out of the game.

(I did like seeing Mike Brown get clattered, mind you.)
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Tex said:
He deserves a few weeks for it, imo. Bakkies Botha got away with it for years, but it's a catastrophic injury just waiting to happen and should be rubbed out of the game.

(I did like seeing Mike Brown get clattered, mind you.)
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What catastrophic injury waiting to happen?

All that is in question is whether he used his arms in the cleanout. He didn't attack an unprotected player, he attempted to cleanout a player that was competing in the ruck.
 
mxyzptlk

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Braveheart81 said:
What catastrophic injury waiting to happen?

All that is in question is whether he used his arms in the cleanout. He didn't attack an unprotected player, he attempted to cleanout a player that was competing in the ruck.
Click to expand...

Mentioned this in another post, but Bakkies Botha did a similar shoulder-slam into Cian Healy's head/neck/shoulder last April, and a week later Healy was having surgery to repair a disc in his neck. He's just now getting back into match shape.

So it didn't end his career or leave him paralyzed, but I'm not sure that's the standard to aim for.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Braveheart81 said:
What catastrophic injury waiting to happen?

All that is in question is whether he used his arms in the cleanout. He didn't attack an unprotected player, he attempted to cleanout a player that was competing in the ruck.
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A shoulder to the head, lucky he missed Browns head or their could have been a serious injury. His intention was fine, his technique wasn't.
 
Hugh Jarse

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Seb V said:
A shoulder to the head, lucky he missed Browns head or their could have been a serious injury. His intention was fine, his technique wasn't.
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So if Hooper had used his arms in the cleanout of Brown, as per the correct technique, but done some serious injury to Brown like breaking his neck, would it have been all honkey dory?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
mxyzptlk said:
Mentioned this in another post, but Bakkies Botha did a similar shoulder-slam into Cian Healy's head/neck/shoulder last April, and a week later Healy was having surgery to repair a disc in his neck. He's just now getting back into match shape.

So it didn't end his career or leave him paralyzed, but I'm not sure that's the standard to aim for.
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This one?


How are these incidents even remotely similar? Also, it looks like both are just competing for the ball.

It has been subsequently reported that they don't think the bulging disc he sustained was from this hit.
 
aeneas

aeneas

Tom Lawton (22)
Any chance the forum can stop commenting about Hooper until the decision is announced? This is getting tiresome.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Seb V said:
A shoulder to the head, lucky he missed Browns head or their could have been a serious injury. His intention was fine, his technique wasn't.
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Well of course. If Hooper had done something he didn't do it could have been more dangerous.

If he'd run in and fly kicked Brown in the face it would have been really dangerous but he didn't do that.
 
mxyzptlk

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Braveheart81 said:
This one?


How are these incidents even remotely similar? Also, it looks like both are just competing for the ball.

It has been subsequently reported that they don't think the bulging disc he sustained was from this hit.
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Shoulder to the head/neck. I'm not saying it was necessarily foul play on Botha's part in that example. In my previous post I said I believe Healy was already having an issue with his neck, and that collision finished it off -- he couldn't train or play the next week, and then went in for surgery. And I'm not saying the situations of play are similar, but someone leveling a shoulder into a head/neck is similar to someone else leveling a shoulder into a head/neck (and that's a go-to move for Botha in many situations). Not sure why that's hard to understand. Say a boxer knocks someone out against the ropes with an uppercut or knocks someone out with a clean hook in the middle of the ring; the situation doesn't make the impact of the KO any different.

To reiterate, my only point was that a shoulder slammed into an opponent's head/neck proved to be dangerous. I'm not equating Hooper's trying to clear a ruck with a shoulder to the head to Botha competing for a ball with a shoulder to the head.
 
Grandmaster Flash

Grandmaster Flash

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Groucho said:
I was being gentle when I said "hyperbole".

Sanchez's dive in the Argie test was the first yellow of Hooper's career at any level of the game, and even that was as sniffy as hell. Hooper's a scrupulously clean player.

You're not making a constructive criticism: you're making things up.
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Hooper got a yellow for this

Regardless, the clean out was stupid and deserved a yellow on the night.

Edit: didn't see 2013 card had earlier been mentioned.
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
the plastic paddy said:
That Quote about Woodward and three world cups is classic Jones, what a complete tool the man is. And his list of 'great' players is first class..
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The thing that made me chuckle was the point about Woodward's "vision".

Uh, the vision to bring together a team of veterans who picked themselves, who had played together for years, including most of a Lions tour together, and simply ask the RFU for more money to make sure the preparation was top notch?

Fuck yeah. Genius.
 
Tex

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Braveheart81 said:
What catastrophic injury waiting to happen?

All that is in question is whether he used his arms in the cleanout. He didn't attack an unprotected player, he attempted to clean out a player that was competing in the ruck.
Click to expand...

Think of the situations where the game's rules have been adapted to protect vulnerable players.

- can't tackle a man in the air
- can't lift beyond the horizontal when tackling
- can't tackle a player while he's on the ground (i.e. a fullback in retreat)
- the arms must be used in the tackle.

The clean out of an unsighted and arguably unprepared player is probably the one remaining situation where players could and should exercise a greater degree of caution for the welfare of their opponents.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Tex said:
Think of the situations where the game's rules have been adapted to protect vulnerable players.

- can't tackle a man in the air
- can't lift beyond the horizontal when tackling
- can't tackle a player while he's on the ground (i.e. a fullback in retreat)
- the arms must be used in the tackle.

The clean out of an unsighted and arguably unprepared player is probably the one remaining situation where players could and should exercise a greater degree of caution for the welfare of their opponents.
Click to expand...


The player is protected on the basis that the player cleaning out needs to use their arms (which is the major question here). A player cleaning out also can't attack the head/neck of the player in the breakdown.

It's pretty fundamental to the game that a player can compete for the ball at the breakdown and the other team can clean them out.
 
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