Bledisloe 1 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, ANZ Stadium, Sydney, 8:05pm

[Lorenzo]

Last 3-4 pages pretty much arguing over back positions (same arguments rehashed mostly) and barely a murmur about our completely insipid forward performance where the whole pack pretty much was man-shamed all night. And that was just the breakdowns / tackles. The set piece was rubbish, scrum only slightly less so than lineout.
By all means shake up the backs (some need a rest, some are injured) but we'll be counting big numbers against us next week if the forwards produce that type of display again.
Just sayin'.

I dare say most people watch the ball when watching the game live/for the first time. Watching the ball can give you a reasonable (though nowhere near complete) understanding of how the backs performed - individually. Doesn't really tell you about how the forwards performed (individually), besides that the lineout sucked.

I don't think anyone thinks the forwards performed well last night, but it's harder to comment on the performance of individual forwards after only one viewing.

Personally, I have accepted that our forwards will be generally be outplayed and try to think about making up for that elsewhere. It's happened in probably 80% of the tests I've watched so I figure its always going to be a thing.

To address your point though: you don't pick a guy who can't kick to move your side downfield with the boot. It's stupid and a major coaching error. A pro coach like MC should be better with shit like that. Even though our forwards were dominated, we made errors in selection and execution that made things worse for reasons unrelated to forward play. Surely those things warrant discussion.

 

[KOB1987]

Last 3-4 pages pretty much arguing over back positions (same arguments rehashed mostly) and barely a murmur about our completely insipid forward performance where the whole pack pretty much was man-shamed all night. And that was just the breakdowns / tackles. The set piece was rubbish, scrum only slightly less so than lineout.
By all means shake up the backs (some need a rest, some are injured) but we'll be counting big numbers against us next week if the forwards produce that type of display again.
Just sayin'.

Absolutely. I couldn't be bothered looking it up because I'm done with last night's game, but out of interest what was the turnover count?

 

[cyclopath]

I dare say most people watch the ball when watching the game live/for the first time. Watching the ball can give you a reasonable (though nowhere near complete) understanding of how the backs performed. Doesn't really tell you about how the forwards performed, besides that the lineout sucked.

I don't think anyone thinks the forwards performed well last night.

I didn't think anyone did. I just was surprised at the lack of discussion about them, compared to the oft repeated debates about all the backs (and I'm not saying those discussions are not valid). The forward issues were what struck me most watching live, in particular how much the ABs dominated pretty much all the collisions.

 

[cyclopath]

Absolutely. I couldn't be bothered looking it up because I'm done with last night's game, but out of interest what was the turnover count?

I'm not sure, but I'm not so bothered as we won a few, they won a few. The ABs were not going for steals, they were going for wrecking our ball. The offload count by their forwards, if anyone keeps such a stat, would be horrifying from our point of view.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Absolutely. I couldn't be bothered looking it up because I'm done with last night's game, but out of interest what was the turnover count?

Vodacom Rugby is giving 12 to the Wobs.

Which may just show how little they matter.

 

[Sully]

Last 3-4 pages pretty much arguing over back positions (same arguments rehashed mostly) and barely a murmur about our completely insipid forward performance where the whole pack pretty much was man-shamed all night. And that was just the breakdowns / tackles. The set piece was rubbish, scrum only slightly less so than lineout.
By all means shake up the backs (some need a rest, some are injured) but we'll be counting big numbers against us next week if the forwards produce that type of display again.
Just sayin'.

Balancing the backrow will probably give us 3.5 genuine jumpers. Scrum was mostly Sio from what I could determine. We can try Slipper but don't know if he'd go any better.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[KAOPointman]

Vodacom Rugby is giving 12 to the Wobs.

Which may just show how little they matter.

Oh they matter.......but if you don't turn your possession into something positive, either a clever kick or putting another player into forward momentum......then there's no use to possession. The forwards spend the whole game chasing backs and doing tiresome defending. Then they suffer even more at everything else. The play maker is the No1 most important player to have doing positive things. Just look at Bowden Barrett. Kept them on the front foot all nite. Then compare Foley....(smacks forehead)

 

[tragic]

Last 3-4 pages pretty much arguing over back positions (same arguments rehashed mostly) and barely a murmur about our completely insipid forward performance where the whole pack pretty much was man-shamed all night. And that was just the breakdowns / tackles. The set piece was rubbish, scrum only slightly less so than lineout.
By all means shake up the backs (some need a rest, some are injured) but we'll be counting big numbers against us next week if the forwards produce that type of display again.
Just sayin'.

Agree 100%
But unfortunately there are few alternatives in the forwards that will make a difference. It's just shuffling the existing cards to a more balanced lineup. There's only so many ways you can say the forwards need to man up.
At least there are alternative options in the backs which strengthen the team and may allow us to do more with the ball we do get.

 

[cyclopath]

Agree 100%
But unfortunately there are few alternatives in the forwards that will make a difference. It's just shuffling the existing cards to a more balanced lineup. There's only so many ways you can say the forwards need to man up.
At least there are alternative options in the backs which strengthen the team and may allow us to do more with the ball we do get.

Fair enough, but if Genia is being harassed as much and getting such poor ball, I'm not sure Cooper will have much fun. We had bugger all good attacking ball last night, which was, I agree, used poorly. We can only hope. Could be a tough gig for him. If we can exit our end better it will be a big start.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

I watched it twice - my conclusion : "The Late Rodney King would have put up more of a fight". The Wallabies are a team of individuals playing for their spots whilst the All Blacks are a Champion Team who help each other build to become champion players . i think Chieka and his coaching team need to foster some stability within the make up of his squad and make a concerted effort to properly develop the talent he has at his disposal . That means getting rid of his ridiculous 50 plus player beauty parade and lay off the shuffling in of "yesterdays hero's" in a Wallaby context . I can't believe the statement - we have to get fitter - UNBELIEVABLE !!!!! (at this level) . This proposition is much harder given the squad for mine in recent times has not been picked so much on form but on what he is looking for to create a fantasy team in his head - I hope it works .

 

[tragic]

Scrum was mostly Sio from what I could determine. We can try Slipper but don't know if he'd go any better.
Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

Slipper stabilised the scrum against Eng when Sio got towelled.
It's a fair assumption he'd do the same again.

 

[KOB1987]

I watched it twice - my conclusion : "The Late Rodney King would have put up more of a fight". The Wallabies are a team of individuals playing for their spots whilst the All Blacks are a Champion Team who help each other build to become champion players . i think Chieka and his coaching team need to foster some stability within the make up of his squad and make a concerted effort to properly develop the talent he has at his disposal . That means getting rid of his ridiculous 50 plus player beauty parade and lay off the shuffling in of "yesterdays hero's" in a Wallaby context . I can't believe the statement - we have to get fitter - UNBELIEVABLE !!!!! (at this level) . This proposition is much harder given the squad for mine in recent times has not been picked so much on form but on what he is looking for to create a fantasy team in his head - I hope it works .

I like your post except for the first part. You watched it twice?? Are you into self flagellation? Or just a closet ABs sympathiser?

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

No ..seemed like a bad dream ..taped it for my son who was out for the night ...watched it with him today ...felt no better 2nd time around

 

[Pfitzy]

YOU SUBJECTED YOUR FAMILY TO THIS???

 

[Joe Blow]

Slipper
TPN
Kepu
Coleman
Douglas
Fardy
Hooper(VC)
Pocock(C)

Moore
Sio
Robertson
Mumm
Timani

 

[formerflanker]

No, but he can organise for experts/coaches that specialise in different areas of the game to attend training and when the players think they are done for the day he sends them off for skills sessions.

Send them for a couple of hours of kicking practice every day until they can kick, if they get upset then do not renew their contract.

Didn't they have about 4 weeks together to achieve this?

 

[Quick Hands]

Did you watch Argentina play last night?

Haven't seen the game, have seen that the Boks won with a late try.

 

[Beefcake]

Pocock is only out of position at scrum time, and that's like by 2 feet. The rest of the time he is exactly where he is meant to be which is all over the place.

DHP was targeted defensively last night because he was out of position.

What's Foley got to do with anything? I said those back three are safe, meaning under the high ball and they will know what they are doing defensively, plus DHP is a good tactical kicker when he is utilised as one.

Its excuses like this that overlook the reality...'out of position'? to make a tackle you mean? - the kid will be good, but he wasnt good enough - should be dropped as should anyone else who wasnt up to par or atleast benched.

Foley has everything to do with it, whats the point of catching the high ball if you cant promote it or use it to your advantage? Whats the point of kicking the ball away if you do not profit from it? Foley's game (not laying blame on him) is safe, can catch and pass, kick and sometimes puts people through gaps (not often enough) is nothing but safe.

Rugby is not a safe sport ala Git, To'omua & Horne

 

[Mr Doug]

Is it possible that Cheika flogged our guys at training for the last four weeks, and when it came to BC 1, they had "nothing left in the (collective) tank"?!
My one-word description of that match was: "Embarrassing". Embarrassing for those of us who are rusted-on Rugby fans, and embarrassing for any fringe (or part-time) fans who we may have individually convinced to watch that rubbish.
After having just spent a couple of hours labouring through the last 15 pages of this thread, I'm interested to see that no one has suggested that Carter be included in the 23 for BC 2! I'm hoping that he wont be, so Mrs D and I can catch up with him at Bond Uni on Sunday when the Canberra "Vikings" play the Qld. Country "Thorns"!!

 

[HoldingOn]

Pocock is only out of position at scrum time, and that's like by 2 feet. The rest of the time he is exactly where he is meant to be which is all over the place.

DHP was targeted defensively last night because he was out of position.

What's Foley got to do with anything? I said those back three are safe, meaning under the high ball and they will know what they are doing defensively, plus DHP is a good tactical kicker when he is utilised as one.

I dunno about you but I saw DHP miss at least 3 one on ones against Naholo. Regardless of where he was playing those tackles need to be made. The basic skill set is pretty much the same for all positions (catch, tackle and pass) and should be adaptable. There is just no excuse for repeatedly failing to execute those skills.