British & Irish Lions tour of New Zealand (2017)

[waiopehu oldboy]

Hartley suspended for six weeks:

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/hartley-banned-for-six-weeks/

Lucky for him WR (World Rugby)'s "zero tolerance" protocols for contact with the head aren't in effect yet:

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/213339

 

[the sabanator]

Might seem crazy but I think the BILs actually have better players in a few positions than the ABs. Only problem they will have is Gatland.

Hopefully a base of English/Irish guys, only Welsh/Scottish players really deserving on form are Hogg & Johnny Gray but Gatland will squeeze a few Welsh in undoubtedly

 

[Highlander35]

My feeling is that Hogg, Jonny and Nel will go if those three are uninjured and in reasonable form.

A number of other players, including but limited to Laidlaw, Dickinson, Barclay, Seymour and whoever gets the 6 Nations starts from our Center collection will also find themselves in contention, but will probably miss barring injury or serious lack of form (collective or individual) from the other 3 nations.

 

[KevinO]

Will be interesting to see how many Gatland takes on tour. Was around 35 in the original squad in 2013. I remember the last NZ tour they took 55 or something stupid like that.

 

[Highlander35]

Will be interesting to see how many Gatland takes on tour. Was around 35 in the original squad in 2013. I remember the last NZ tour they took 55 or something stupid like that.

Putting my thinking cap on, I'd begin with 38 as a baseline, so that the starting XV can be put in cotton wool for the Chiefs game, then maybe look to round up to 40 so that a short term injury or two can be covered for, as well as give one or two 50/50s an extra chance.

Can't see starting with 50+ happening under any circumstance. Very expensive, Ireland and Scotland already touring, with one of the others likely to as well.

Who knows though.

Gatland's been moaning again about the SRU.

Tell you what, you want a Scottish Coach? Get Mike Blair. As a former Lion, he knows the deal. As a first year coach, being "under" Howley isn't a slap in the face like would be for others. He's got excellent knowledge of many players, both as a teammate and as a coach. Plus, he's played a specialist position, I don't know if he'd actually be able to teach guys like Young's and Murray anything, but a scrum half behind the scenes is never a bad idea.

 

[KevinO]

^^^Interesting that it's Ireland touring and not Irish wolfhounds, I would not be risking losing a test against Japan. Rather make it a tour match to avoid the embarrassment when you end up missing over half your starting 15. Wales in 2013 etc.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Will be interesting to see how many Gatland takes on tour. Was around 35 in the original squad in 2013. I remember the last NZ tour they took 55 or something stupid like that.

It was 44, 2 x match day 22's (as they were then). IIRC the "A" 22 stayed in Auckland & travelled to their venues the day before the game while the "B" 22 did the actual touring. Very divisive, I'd have thought. Plenty of injuries so they may well have used ~55 in total, tho. I suspect Gats will go with more than he brought to Straya (35?) but not as many as SCW took to NZ, you'd end up with too many guys having too much time on their hands & that seldom ends well..........

 

[Kevin77]

I think the Lions squad will be very strong however as someone pointed out the Kiwis will see Gatland/Howley's tactics coming a mile away. Big runners in all the channels.

In terms of Lions selection at this stage it should be predominantly English and Irish players however there is a lot of rugby to be played before the tour and aside from injuries, Wales are usually better in the Six Nations than they show in November. Plus Scotland are genuinely increasing their player pool.

The backrow alone is going to be brutal for selection. So many great players.

 

[Forcefield]

It'll be interesting to see the wear and tear from the 6 Nations and Super Rugby. New Zealand have some amazing depth, but not so much in the tight five where you'd have to pick the Lions to be strongest. Unless injuries hit in a big way, this would probably be the strongest Lions team selected in a long time.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

PlanetRugby have had a crack at a 37-man "if selected today" touring party:

Fullback: Hogg, Liam Williams
Wings: Zebo, May, North if OK, Watson
Centres: Farrell, Joseph, Henshaw, Davies
Flyhalf: Ford, Jackson
Scrum half: Murray, Youngs, Laidlaw
No. 8: Billy Vunipola, Faletau
Flankers: Stander, Robshaw, Tipuric, O'Brien, Warburton
Locks: Itoje, J Gray, Toner, Wyn Jones, Kruis
Props: M Vunipola, Furlong, McGrath, Cole, Nel, Healy
Hooker: Best, Hartley, George

By my count that's 14 from England, 11 from Ireland, 7 from Wales & 4 from Scotland.

They'll be doing fortnightly updates based on form & injury, there being a huge question mark over North's future & there'll obviously be some casualties during the 6N & domestic/ Euro leagues. Looks a pretty solid first-draft, tho.

Thoughts? Esp those of our NH friends?

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/lions-watch-2017-edition-1/

 

[Highlander35]

Can't argue too much.

Launchbury a little hard done by, I'd prefer him over Toner, but I know that's just me not rating him rather than an objective view.

Would also suggest Webb over Laidlaw, and Halfpenny will be there somewhere.

If we're not playing Gatland-Ball, and one of Farrell and Halfpenny is in the starting line up, Russell should be in contention. I reckon if you swapped him and Ford around, England would be even better and we'd be significantly worse.

I'd also take Barclay over Warburton as his return to International colours over the past 12 months has been nothing short of excellence, but he's not gonna leave his captain at home.

I'd be happy enough if that was the team selected.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Will Ye be buying one've these for Chrissy, @Highlander?

30 quid! Bargain!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Injury withdrawal #1: Manu Tuilagi out for 6mo with ACL injury.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11776960

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Not an injury withdrawal yet, but Chris Robshaw's out for 12+ weeks with a shoulder injury which doesn't leave him much time post-op before the team is named:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...-surgery-that-dents-his-lions-touring-chances

I'm guessing Gatland will still pick him on reputation/ past performance, subject to passing fitness test(s).

 

[KevinO]

Not an injury withdrawal yet, but Chris Robshaw's out for 12+ weeks with a shoulder injury which doesn't leave him much time post-op before the team is named:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...-surgery-that-dents-his-lions-touring-chances

I'm guessing Gatland will still pick him on reputation/ past performance, subject to passing fitness test(s).

Don't know if he would, Gatland has told Sexton that he needs some serious good game time and won't be picked on reputation.

 

[Highlander35]

It would be disappointing but fundamentally fair for some boys to miss out because of injuries not suffered at the time.

Nel the other logical victim of that ATM. Francis and Furlong have both been very good in 2016, particularly in the November Internationals, then with Dan Cole being fit and more or less guaranteed his 5 starts in the 6 Nations, time is running out for him to get quality gametime.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Blues, Crusaders and Highlanders should be near full strength as there is a bit of a gap before the first ABs game. And they get to play all 3 within 7 days. A nice warm up to the Maori All Blacks game 3 days later.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11703794

Blues & Crusaders will be at full strength:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ers-and-blues-against-british-and-irish-lions

After that AB's go into camp & Shag's case by case release or non-release of players kicks in. I'm picking that e.g. if Kaino is still regarded the premier 6 he might release Dixon and/ or Squire to give them some game time, ditto Sopoaga but probably neither of the Smiths.

Interesting that Shag is looking at a squad of 33: chuck in the Maori AB & that's a fair chunk of players potentially unavailable for the other Super sides for their big day e.g. Chiefs play them four days after MAB so you'd think not too many will back up.

Also interesting that Shag is at least thinking about a pre-series hitout of some sort, wonder if me might see an old-fashioned trial in all but name? 33 AB plus 20-odd MAB split into two teams. Or will they go for the three x 20 minute option with say Northland, Counties Manukau & Auckland providing the oppo?

 

[Quick Hands]

^^I think that we can take it as fact that there won't be any easy games for the Lions in NZ. Every game will be a physical and a mental battle. The tour will be the rugby equivalent of running a marathon in 40 degree heat while at the same time preparing for a Physics degree.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

A 33-man training squad implies a match day 23 with a 5/3 bench and 10 extras: third hooker, two extra props (for six in total), fourth lock, two extra loosies (one of them a specialist 7), third halfback, third 5/8, fourth midfielder & fifth outside back.

If they were picking the team right now I think it would look like this:

Props: Crockett, Faumuina, Goodes, Franks, Moody, Tu’ungafasi
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Coltman or Parsons
Locks: Retallick, Whitelock, two of Barrett, Fifita, Tuipulotu
Loose forwards: Cane, Dixon, Kaino, Read, Savea, Squire, Todd
Halfbacks: Kerr-Barlow, Perenara, Smith
5/8's: Cruden, Barrett, Sopoaga
Midfield: Crotty, Lienert-Brown, two of Fekitoa, Moala, Tamanivalu, Williams
Outside backs: Dagg, Naholo, Milner-Skudder, Savea, Smith

I think the third hooker will be Parsons if he's fit, they seem to prefer him to Coltman.

Third lock will be Tuipulotu if his head is in the right place with Barrett & Fifita a 50/50 call for the fourth.

Williams will be picked if he's 100%, they like the athleticism he brings, the other midfielder will be whoever has the best Super Rugby form.

EDIT: just read that Goodes took another head knock in the Blues trial, causing him to miss the Crusaders trial & be in doubt for Rd 1. Plenty of time for him to recover but he's had a few head knocks now so it could rule him out for a while. Not sure who the next loosehead in the pecking order is.

 

[Tigger]

Any idea who is televising this in Oz?