Where to for Super Rugby?

[wamberal]

I suppose my views are based to some extent on having born way back, my first experience of watching the game was at the old Eastwood Oval, and the Woodies were lucky to win a game or two every season.

It was not until I was in my twenties that we made a grand final in first grade. And I was in my late fifties when we finally won our first first grade premiership. Along the way we had a lot of losing seasons, we even dropped down to Second Division for a while.


If you love the game, you love it, good or bad, warts and wall.


If you want everything your own way, you are not in the right sport.

 

[blues recovery]

I think the examples you've given pretty much show the problem with sporting co-locations, they're usually never an equal partnership. In each of those examples the team plays the vast majority of their games in one location, with a token game or two in the other location (often as a bit of a cash grab - yes I'm looking at you North Melbourne).

It's also a bit easier to send some of your games elsewhere in the AFL/NRL when you've got about a dozen home games compared to the 6 or 7 you get in Super Rugby.

Would you really have any connection to the Brumbies if they only played a pre-season game and one regular season game (probably against a less popular opposition team) down in Melbourne? I wouldn't if it was the other way round.

I wasn't talking about a token game here or there and your right the Kangaroos comparison was not a good one . A better one is probably the Swans who still hold a huge affiliation to South Melbourne and have very strong support in Melbourne because when they play here they embrace the old South Melbourne base
From a personal point of view as long as the merged team uses every effort to integrate across both communities and is a competitive team playing a good brand of Rugby I would still most likely support them even if the base of the team was Canberra because it made more sense for them to be based there from both a financial and Rugby program perspective
Hell I'd probably even drive the six hours a couple of times a year for a weekend away to support a team that deserved it
Anyway it's just a personal view and is not me saying I'd prefere it to the Rebels staying as is . I'm just trying to think of a pragmatic solution to this mess that means professional Rugby in Melbourne doesn't become completely extinct.

 

[QLDHeeler1990]

If you love the game, you love it, good or bad, warts and wall.


If you want everything your own way, you are not in the right sport.

This is my view, entirely. If you love Rugby, you will find somewhere to play and someone to barrack for.

If you are giving up on the code just because your city lost a franchise, well. . .

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If you are giving up on the code just because your city lost a franchise, well.

Wow

 

[I like to watch]

I suppose my views are based to some extent on having born way back, my first experience of watching the game was at the old Eastwood Oval, and the Woodies were lucky to win a game or two every season.

It was not until I was in my twenties that we made a grand final in first grade. And I was in my late fifties when we finally won our first first grade premiership. Along the way we had a lot of losing seasons, we even dropped down to Second Division for a while.


If you love the game, you love it, good or bad, warts and wall.


If you want everything your own way, you are not in the right sport.

What if the comp the Woodies were in,was disbanded?
But hard to support your team if it didn't exist.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What if the comp the Woodies were in,were disbanded?
But hard to support your team if it didn't exist.

Rabbitohs fans managed

 

[MarkJ]

I wasn't talking about a token game here or there and your right the Kangaroos comparison was not a good one . A better one is probably the Swans who still hold a huge affiliation to South Melbourne and have very strong support in Melbourne because when they play here they embrace the old South Melbourne base

The advantage the Swans have in keeping their Melbourne fans is that they're playing in Melbourne nearly every second week as most of the rest of the league is Melbourne based.

Maybe a better example for your argument is the GWS Giants - they seem to have developed a fairly decent following in Canberra even though they only play a few games here. The Giants being a winning team now probably helps a fair bit, but it's also that there's a lot of AFL fans in the ACT who will watch any team really.

Though the Giants playing here seems to be in a large degree dependent on the ACT government handing over wheelbarrows full of cash to them.

 

[RebelYell]

Just to make the ARU dealings with the Rebels even murkier I'm told that at least three Directors on the Rebels advisory Board other than Cox have recently invested their own cash into the Club off the back of the assurances given to Cox by a recently departed ARU official that the Rebs were safe .

Wow, so this continues the implication that Cox is running out of money, or perhaps never had as much as he suggested in the first place?

Is this still the board? https://melbournerebels.com/about-us/board/

 

[I like to watch]

Rabbitohs fans managed

Poor analogy.
Supporting league in a league town can't be compared to following rugby without a team in AFL obsessed Melbourne.
A better analogy might have been the league teams in Perth or Adelaide, bit hard to support League in those cities.

 

[FiveStarStu]

I understand your pain, but you are taking it slightly too personal.

I can assure you I'm treating this with the seriousness it deserves. Melbourne or Perth is going to have the floor ripped out from under them and if it's Melbourne, it'll be the third time this has happened. This is personal for me.

As someone from a state who will never find themselves in this position, I don't expect you to understand.

 

[FiveStarStu]

If you are giving up on the code just because your city lost a franchise, well.

Really?

 

[blues recovery]

Wow, so this continues the implication that Cox is running out of money, or perhaps never had as much as he suggested in the first place?

Is this still the board? https://melbournerebels.com/about-us/board/

I don't see it this way at all . More the case that there are Directors other than Cox who have real skin in the game and in some cases have for a long time . These are people who have made it a main focus of the last 7 years of their lives to try to make this thing work . They could have bailed out many years ago when Mitchell walked away but they didn't .
From my experience this lot won't go down without one hell of a fight and maybe even internally if Cox tries to cash in

 

[FiveStarStu]

I don't see it this way at all . More the case that there are Directors other than Cox who have real skin in the game and in some cases have for a long time . These are people who have made it a main focus of the last 7 years of their lives to try to make this thing work . They could have bailed out many years ago when Mitchell walked away but they didn't .

From my experience this lot won't go down without one hell of a fight and maybe even internally if Cox tries to cash in

It does make it interesting - if only to suggest that, if there's board buy-in, Imperium is not just Andrew Cox. There are people on that board who I know would never sell.

 

[lou75]

Now I'll admit that this is second hand information but it is very close second hand information. Just to make the ARU dealings with the Rebels even murkier I'm told that at least three Directors on the Rebels advisory Board other than Cox have recently invested their own cash into the Club off the back of the assurances given to Cox by a recently departed ARU official that the Rebs were safe .

Have heard similar whispers. Here's my question:
If Cox owns Imperium and Imperium are now joint owners of Rebels with those Board members, does Cox get the money to himself if they agree to sell the Rebels, or do the Board members get any of the proceeds of the sale?

 

[James Pettifer]

I can assure you I'm treating this with the seriousness it deserves. Melbourne or Perth is going to have the floor ripped out from under them and if it's Melbourne, it'll be the third time this has happened. This is personal for me.

As someone from a state who will never find themselves in this position, I don't expect you to understand.

100% agree. Being a rugby fan in Melbourne has been tough.

Those great days when you couldn't even get the Bledisloe cup on FTA live as channel seven were too busy showing a repeat of a 10 year old movie (why the ARU didn't mandate that the tests needed to be shown live across at least all capitals)

Missing out on the Super 14 team. Then having the first cut of the Melbourne Rebels canned when the ARC was killed. Having the Melbourne Rebels canned from Super Rugby will be it for a lot of rugby supporters in Melbourne.

I don't know what I will do with regards to rugby. Maybe I'll just go off and support one of the two ice hockey teams. How #$%#ing ridiculous is that. We could be in the position where the second largest city in Australia won't be part of the major rugby tournament in Australia but we will have 2 ice hockey teams in the AIHL, a baseball team in the ABL and a basketball team in the NBL.

 

[Rebels3]

I understand your pain, but you are taking it slightly too personal.

But it is personal, i fancy taking my kids to watch some rugby just like my father did with me. I want the kids i coach to have people to look upto, not just on TV but someone they can actually see in the flesh, just like i had (i'm a QLD'er btw). I also enjoy the aspect of being able to catch up with mates, have a few beers, a burger and then walk down to the rugby, it's one of the highlights of my week.

Obviously it's not life or death stuff, that'd be just silly and ridiculous. Anyone that thinks that needs their head rung, but it is most definitely lifestyle changing.

 

[cyclopath]

This thread must be nearing the end of its life.

Any thread is but a few mouse clicks away from death. When Haz-Mat gear is required to extract the thread from its own fundament, it may have Goneski 2.0 enacted upon it.

 

[Rebels3]

Rabbitohs fans managed

Bunnies fans still had the option to watch 6/7 other teams in their own city each week.

As for taking it well..................... Their was marches down the street, people who vowed to never watch the game and the governing body was forced by the courts to re-instate them back into the competition.

Unless that was a sarcastic comment. lol then nice humor

 

[NTT]

In 1996 the ARU was broke and the taxpayers of Victoria and the sporting patrons of Victoria bailed out the ARU. The State government of Victoria struck a five year deal with the ARU to bring two Bledisloe games, a Mandela cup game and a British lions game to Victoria bringing patrons through the turnstiles like no other state could.
Three similar deals were subsequently done and from 1997 to 2016 the Victorian Major events paid well in excess of twenty million dollars to attract four Bledisloe cups, two British lions, numerous world cup games and a host of other test matches to Melbourne so that over a million patrons could attend test match rugby in Melbourne. At an average ticket price of one hundred dollars, that equates to one hundred million dollars in to the coffers of the ARU.
In total, the Victorian taxpayers and sports patrons added over a hundred and twenty million dollars in revenue to the ARUs war chest.
Further, Vic government built a rugby stadium at AAMI park as part of the failed 2004 bid for Rugby at a further cost of $350 m .
Close to half a billion dollars has been invested in rugby in the state of Victoria.

How can the ARU even contemplate cutting the Melbourne Rebels after Victorian rugby saved Australian Rugby?

The Victorian state government built AAMI Park to cater for the Storm and the multiple A league clubs in Victoria. It was not built in "retaliation" of or "as part of the bid" to being awarded a Super Rugby franchise. This figure of $350 million is misleading as this stadium was being built regardless to cater for existing sports teams.
Not all monies from test ticket sales goes to the ARU. There is costs associated with the venue that needs to be taken into consideration, staffing, rent etc. The Victorian government also benefits from the ancillary revenue of hosting a test such as tourism income from hotels, restaurants etc. Without knowing the exact split, the ARU would only see between 10 - 20% of ticket sales revenue and that may be a bit generous. The Victorian government would make its initial investment back first then the ARU might make a couple million more on top, so the total the ARU makes is the $5 million to host the game, merchandise sales and a bit on change from tickets. I doubt the Victorian government would host such an event if they gave away all of the money earnt using their infrastructure. Heck, the ARU struggles to turn a profit hosting a match at Homebush in Western Sydney where they get 60 000 - 80 000 attending.
I struggle to see how the ARU is half a billion dollars better off by investing in Victoria as your figures are very inaccurate and misleading. Rugby may have generated half a billion dollars of economic activity inside of Victoria but as revealed by multiple ARU financial statements, the ARU is not $500 million better off from any state. If they were, we wouldn't be having the discussion about culling a team.
If anything, your figures actually show the ARU is better off hosting the one off blockbuster test matches in Victoria rather than trying to facilitate a Super Rugby team. Theres more money for the ARU to be had from Victoria hosting a Bledisloe than there is the ARU continally propping up the Rebels and fighting the AFL for weekly exposure that the AFL can easily out spend the ARU on.
My summation most probably wont be popular amongst the Rebel Army. Backlash away.

 

[oztimmay]

I don't see it this way at all . More the case that there are Directors other than Cox who have real skin in the game and in some cases have for a long time . These are people who have made it a main focus of the last 7 years of their lives to try to make this thing work . They could have bailed out many years ago when Mitchell walked away but they didn't .
From my experience this lot won't go down without one hell of a fight and maybe even internally if Cox tries to cash in

I see it as a play for Andrew to make it hard for the ARU to put an offer on the table. Instead of dealing with one person, he needs to deal with four. Judging by the board profile, there is enough intellectual firepower to make the ARU shit bricks.