Refereeing decisions

[Nusadan]

Again though, if the ball carrier was released, and other players came through the right way, what law is being broken by the draggers?

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As the tackled player has to be released when on ground, and thus can't be grappled with in the aftermath.
Its the same line of thinking that applies with a player who falls and lands on the ball when regathering a grubber kick for example, and the other team can't fall on the him and only can go for the ball when the opportunity presents itself and whilst still on feet.

Alternatively, the referee could label such action as unfair play as not being in the spirit of the game.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Players are under incredible scrutiny nowadays. Cameras everywhere, reviews by TMO during game and post match reviews lead to suspensions.

Same scrutiny needs to be applied to Referees, Assistants and TMO's and action needs to be taken. Gone should be the days where a bad decision is accepted with the bullshit and lame excuse "he's only human and mistakes happen"

 

[bedandbreakfast]

and nobody is allowed to criticise the ref ever lest they be accused of "bringing the game into disrepute"

 

[Brumby Runner]

I agree Scrubber. Not advocating dropping a ref just bevause he made one or two poor decisions in a game, but to retain the confidence of the public they should at least explain what they saw and why they went a particular way with certain controversial decisions (like the last scrum in the Reds' game on the weekend). A pattern of controversial (read poor) decisions over a period of games should lead to some sanction or suspension just as we'd expect would be applied to players. Should also apply to the TMOs by the way.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I agree Scrubber. Not advocating dropping a ref just bevause he made one or two poor decisions in a game, but to retain the confidence of the public they should at least explain what they saw and why they went a particular way with certain controversial decisions (like the last scrum in the Reds' game on the weekend). A pattern of controversial (read poor) decisions over a period of games should lead to some sanction or suspension just as we'd expect would be applied to players. Should also apply to the TMOs by the way.

(1:25:30 on YouTube)

Red right head is pretty clearly bound on the blue arm/sleeve and the ref thinks that contributed to the collapse.

My problem with these sort of suggestions in a subjective game like rugby is that inevitably you can find something to be penalised in any play you look at.

We ask the refs to manage the game, not just police it. They deserve all the leeway they get because of the problems with the laws book.



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[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^^
No

They SHOULD be responsible or held accountable for incorrect interpretations

I'm talking generally for all teams (not just Reds)

 

[ACT Crusader]

^^^^^^
No

They SHOULD be responsible or held accountable for incorrect interpretations

I'm talking generally for all teams (not just Reds)

Are you saying they aren't held accountable?

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^
Not nearly enough

 

[Scrubber2050]

Serious question:

Who trains the Referees ?

Or does their training just emanate from the skills gained in junior and then senior rugby and if deemed good they get promoted to Super level

 

[Parse]

I think Sanzar is the problem. I believe they tell the referee's to adjudicate in a certain fashion because they perceive those interpretations will make for a better spectacle for the punters.

I watch a bit of northern hemisphere rugby and the way they ref up there is much better - especially the breakdown. Then again they just might have better referee's all round.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Serious question:

Who trains the Referees ?

Or does their training just emanate from the skills gained in junior and then senior rugby and if deemed good they get promoted to Super level

Here's the ARU match official page - the referee's coaches are listed

http://www.aru.com.au/referees/ARUReferees/NationalMatchOfficialTeamProfiles.aspx

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[Scrubber2050]

S.
Thanks for that.

Super Coaches are criticised frequently. Maybe the Referees Coaches should be as well, particularly for the inconsistencies in rulings or interpretations.

If we all want a good product the wild card in the equation is often the Referee.

In the modern world of professional sport they should not be Teflon coated.

 

[Braveheart81]

I watch a bit of northern hemisphere rugby and the way they ref up there is much better - especially the breakdown. Then again they just might have better referee's all round.

I think they generally allow a lot more leeway at the breakdown in terms of contesting the ball once a ruck has formed and not penalising players who don't roll away.

It results in a slower game and I don't think we should be trying to follow suit.

 

[Parse]

I think they generally allow a lot more leeway at the breakdown in terms of contesting the ball once a ruck has formed and not penalising players who don't roll away.

It results in a slower game and I don't think we should be trying to follow suit.

True, but they also don't immediately give penalties for players who just put their hands down pretending to steal the ball. I also don't see much difference with the way most NZ teams get away with in slowing down the ball. They also seem more logical when dealing with high and dangerous tackles with the Ref making the call. When I watch Super Rugby games it looks to me as if the TMO is in charge of the players on the field.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Braveheart,

Nothing slows a game more than a stoppage from a penalty

 

[Braveheart81]

Braveheart,

Nothing slows a game more than a stoppage from a penalty

We don't have a substantially different amount of penalties in Super Rugby compared to the Aviva Premiership or Top 14.

Players adjust to the way referees officiate and push the boundaries wherever they are set.

I think the pace of the game is influenced heavily by the referee enforcing rolling away and not playing the ball once the ruck is formed.

Certainly too many penalties can be blown by overly officious refereeing of penalising things that have little impact on the game. Again though, that happens in a fast or slow paced game.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

French Rugby Referees Confess To Profound Hatred Of Rugby

--NZ Herald—

Garces, Poite and Raynal, the 3 French rugby referees in charge of the big matches on the British and Irish Lions tour of NZ have today all confessed to a profound and deeply-seated hatred of all things rugby.

The trio, who were raised together in a French Convent for Unreasonably Vindictive Children, made a childhood pact to punish the “hugely masculine and devilishly handsome boys” who never picked them to play on any lunchtime touch rugby teams due to the trio’s psychotically vicious anti-social tendencies. “If we cannot inspire love then instead we will inspire great hate” said the anorexic Poite as he slowly pulled the wings from a crippled butterfly on the table before him.

“Our senior year pact was to devote our lives to reaching the pinnacle of the refereeing profession and then punish those far more athletically talented than us by refusing to let any scrum take place” continued Garces as he smiled distantly at the crying butterfly on the table, drawing its last tearful breaths. “Well, not every scrum” chimed in Raynal, as he abruptly bashed the butterfly to death with a baguette. “That would draw suspicion towards our pact. So therefore we only penalise 2 out of every 3 scrums prior to engagement.”

“Scrum? Not under my watch. Penalty!”
Left-to-right, messrs Poite, Garces and Raynal at their Convent for Unreasonably Vindictive Children.

“For a while I wanted to be a traffic warden” admitted Garces. “That way I could look around all day for cars with rugby bumper stickers and ticket them appropriately. However Raynal and I were swayed by Poite and the pact. Now, we all get to do what we love to hate. I mean, we get to do what we love doing by hating what we love to hate.”

"In my senior year at the Convent I wanted to be the Pope” chimed in Poite “but the other senior boys teased me mercilessly so one day, in a pique of anger, I tearfully tore off my cassock and stormed outside into the pouring rain in my undershorts and a sister, there for an under 10's match, about to get underway with no referee, saw me in my undershorts and mistook me for a rugger person and handed me a whistle and asked me to officiate the match. I was so furious at the bullying in the vestibule from the other boys that I just whistled up everything and unbelievably the sister thought I was some sort of rugby rules expert. Ever since I've just been making it up as I went along, learning as I go. Still no idea about scrums though. I just choose a side beforehand, follow the 2 out of every 3 to be penalized mantra, and try to blow the whistle as quickly as possible, so as to appear decisive and authoritative."

“We the French deliver scrum penalties from upon high, as a sort of artful embellishment” continued Garces, as he dabbed the last coloured splays of butterfly wing gore from the corners of his mouth. “A splash here, a dash there, it’s Monet, it’s Manet, it’s a still life, it’s French, it’s Art.”

 

[Strewthcobber]

Sparked by a couple of incidents over the weekend (which I think the refs got right) thought it would be worth asking:-

When the ball is at the back of the ruck and the half back is set to pick it up, what is the opposition entitled to do?

I'm talking about one who comes through the ruck (at least with the appearance of legality)

Can't tackle the half
Can't pickup the ball (it's a ruck)
Can't deliberately leave your feet
Have to bind on to someone who also has to be on their feet.

Doesn't leave too many options.....

 

[Baldric]

Sparked by a couple of incidents over the weekend (which I think the refs got right) thought it would be worth asking:-

When the ball is at the back of the ruck and the half back is set to pick it up, what is the opposition entitled to do?

I'm talking about one who comes through the ruck (at least with the appearance of legality)

Can't tackle the half
Can't pickup the ball (it's a ruck)
Can't deliberately leave your feet
Have to bind on to someone who also has to be on their feet.

Doesn't leave too many options...

The options available are to continue pushing provided you are bound or to wait in an onside position for the ball to be played.

Coming through the ruck is offside play/not bound - both are penalties.
Can only tackle the half if you come from an onside position - hindmost feet
Picking it up - hands in the ruck, penalty
Leaving your feet - penalty

 

[MonkeyBoy]

You must be bound to have any options if the ruck has "collapsed" you would need to shift bodies (not step over them). Therefor D up and look for an opportunity