Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2017

[BrumbyJacksMate]

There are also players in the junior reds programs and ones that have been in junior waratahs programs that didn't make the team.

My advice: go back and watch the ACT vs QLD 1 game again, who was actually the better team? QLD 1 by far. Just because you won that 1 game doesn't make you have the best players. It was because you have been camp for weeks and all these other teams came together days before the games.

ACT are coming out of this process looking like spoilt babies.

Last year QLD came 5th and 6th, we had most our team in the program, again. There was no where near the same reaction.

ACT appear to have thrown all their toys out of the crib and are spreading negativity the whole way through Australian rugby forums.

I can't believe I even saw the amount of negative comments on the Australian rugby union Facebook page team announcement.

It's time to put your diaper on, stop whinging and accept the facts ahead of you.

Did you notice that a significant number of those facebook comments are from people that don't live in the ACT?

 

[amirite]

The ACT benefits from the fact that 50% of their rep team probably sticks around in the system from U14s-U18s. That's a huge amount of consistency and something no other team has.

Victoria, as an example, is picked away at by scholarships interstate (I believe WA is in the same boat) and obviously Qld and NSW have such a large number of players that they couldn't hope to emulate that.

Fantastic by the ACT, but if that team got picked at the next level they just wouldn't cut it. Perhaps 1 or 2 names were unlucky, but no more.

With a fair few spots still open, and a fair few more likely to open due to injury, I think we'll see plenty of ACT kids in the teams.

 

[Azzuri]

Has he played at all this year? Or is the same injury from last year?

Hasn't played this year and has been recovering from last years injury. Hopefully back for what should be a good year for the Highlanders next year.

 

[BrumbyJacksMate]

The ACT benefits from the fact that 50% of their rep team probably sticks around in the system from U14s-U18s. That's a huge amount of consistency and something no other team has.

Victoria, as an example, is picked away at by scholarships interstate (I believe WA is in the same boat) and obviously Qld and NSW have such a large number of players that they couldn't hope to emulate that.

Fantastic by the ACT, but if that team got picked at the next level they just wouldn't cut it. Perhaps 1 or 2 names were unlucky, but no more.

With a fair few spots still open, and a fair few more likely to open due to injury, I think we'll see plenty of ACT kids in the teams.

Good observation, 8 of the boys where in the U14 Brumbies squad.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

I am intrigued as to why NZ (or is it just the Crusaders) are approaching Aus school boys.
Surely their cup runneth over, with all their talent and no competition from AFL and very little competition from RL?

Makes sense. They need to stay ahead of the game, which means scouting the best talent, wherever that may be. It just so happens that Australia brings their best schoolboy talent into one place each year. Great for scouting. Bear in mind that Nemani Nadolo came through the Australian system.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

Presumably he has NZ eligibility

No, he's (Will Goddard, ACT) 100% Skip, for many generations on both sides.
Apparently the Crusaders were all for just about taking him back on the plane over the weekend.

I am thinking, with his boot he is maybe looking a bit like a future Beauden Barrett, or the GOAT Dan Carter.

 

[KiwiM]

I am intrigued as to why NZ (or is it just the Crusaders) are approaching Aus school boys.
Surely their cup runneth over, with all their talent and no competition from AFL and very little competition from RL?

Crusaders would have a very poor team if they selected only from within their region. Their schoolboy teams often lose to the best Otago/Southland School in the South Island Schools Game and when they do win that they then get pumped by the North Island schools (last year Southland Boys beat Crusaders region's best school - Southland Boys then went on to get pumped 40 nil by last year's Blues best school). Crusaders have always heavily recruit from all over NZ.

By my count exactly half of the 2017 Crusaders squad of 38 are schooled from outside of the Crusaders region.

 

[Hasbeen]

Crusaders would have a very poor team if they selected only from within their region. Their schoolboy teams often lose to the best Otago/Southland School in the South Island Schools Game and when they do win that they then get pumped by the North Island schools (last year Southland Boys beat Crusaders region's best school - Southland Boys then went on to get pumped 40 nil by last year's Blues best school). Crusaders have always heavily recruit from all over NZ.

By my count exactly half of the 2017 Crusaders squad of 38 are schooled from outside of the Crusaders region.

Must improve the intelligence of the gene pool by recruiting Aussie eh Bro...heh heh

 

[KiwiM]

Must improve the intelligence of the gene pool by recruiting Aussie eh Bro.heh heh

Clearly.... I mean it makes sense...... Aussie rugby and its players have shown an abundance of intelligence in the last 15 years.......

 

[Hasbeen]

Clearly.. I mean it makes sense.. Aussie rugby and its players have shown an abundance of intelligence in the last 15 years...

Well said...

 

[Hasbeen]

My first Wife was a kiwi - Kiwi M. We produced 3 boys, all of whom now live on the North Island. Of those 3 boys, the 3rd Boy is 6 foot 5 inches in height, and weighs 140 kilos. At 16 he benched 155 kilos.

Yet Mumsy did not want him playing Rugby in case he got hurt.

We did not stay married long after that... Ha Ha!!

 

[KiwiM]

My first Wife was a kiwi - Kiwi M. We produced 3 boys, all of whom now live on the North Island. Of those 3 boys, the 3rd Boy is 6 foot 5 inches in height, and weighs 140 kilos. At 16 he benched 155 kilos.

Yet Mumsy did not want him playing Rugby in case he got hurt.

We did not stay married long after that. Ha Ha!!

Get him to come over to Aussie - Aussie rugby needs players of those dimensions (Tahs especially).

 

[First phase]

In reference to Honey Badger and Juan Barn post 789 and 790 it flabbergasts me that selectors are still relying on size when the pick these teams something which is happening at schoolboy waratah and wallaby level to some extents. Classic case is Will Miller who went to play for the rebels this year got man of the Match and had not read their 100 page playbook after an all night trip from Aus to SA. Only 5'10".

Naturally you have to have some big kids but if they are all big kids where does the team get their electric play from? ie NSW2 last year Rixon and Armstrong both not big but very quick. Players like Pavlakis Turner Freeman from NSW are those that are unlucky not to be picked in say the Baa Baa team

What is even more grating is big kids who are picked who can attack but cannot tackle at all.

Again schoolboy coaches are copying coaches above and just pick size. Look at the Aust boys backrow Moretti Conners Rourke and Tizzano. Firstly all deserve to be all played fantastically well but who is going to get the ball?

We will not beat the NZ with big units - they will lap this up.

 

[formerflanker]

I have it on good authority that Will Goddard (ACT) was approached on Friday - before the final and team announcements - by a selector/scout on behalf of the Crusaders.

Although I am clearly an AB supporter in this instance I think he is better staying in the ACT, starting Uni and going with the Brumbies (now they are safe).

I am intrigued as to why NZ (or is it just the Crusaders) are approaching Aus school boys.
Surely their cup runneth over, with all their talent and no competition from AFL and very little competition from RL?

I heard a laughable rumour that Frost has already signed with the Crusaders.

 

[Rugby God]

I heard a laughable rumour that Frost has already signed with the Crusaders.

Then why is any Aust rugby association investing in them. This should be clarified and if correct he shouldn't be eligible for selection.

I think back to the last Schoolboys Europe tour and half the backline was already signed with league teams before they left. Now before you say he is playing rugby I will say it doesn't matter.

The Brumbies half plays for Argentina, the reds have had Japanese players. Costing those players who want to invest and dedicate their alliance to Aust rugby.

We would we develop players who are not going to contribute to the growth of Aust rugby in Aust. It's absolutely dumb, stupid.

Nothing against Frost, he is without a doubt a respected young man. I just feel Aust rugby need to focus on players committed to Aust Tugby and our Franchises.

Same goes for Goddard. It would be a shame to lose such talent but we need to develop and give opportunities to others if they have.

 

[SOLE334]

In reference to Honey Badger and Juan Barn post 789 and 790 it flabbergasts me that selectors are still relying on size when the pick these teams something which is happening at schoolboy waratah and wallaby level to some extents. Classic case is Will Miller who went to play for the rebels this year got man of the Match and had not read their 100 page playbook after an all night trip from Aus to SA. Only 5'10".

Naturally you have to have some big kids but if they are all big kids where does the team get their electric play from? ie NSW2 last year Rixon and Armstrong both not big but very quick. Players like Pavlakis Turner Freeman from NSW are those that are unlucky not to be picked in say the Baa Baa team

What is even more grating is big kids who are picked who can attack but cannot tackle at all.

Again schoolboy coaches are copying coaches above and just pick size. Look at the Aust boys backrow Moretti Conners Rourke and Tizzano. Firstly all deserve to be all played fantastically well but who is going to get the ball?

We will not beat the NZ with big units - they will lap this up.

FYI : Here are some interesting facts from the recent Lions tour in NZ.

It appears size does matter with the exception of a half back.

WHO HAS THE SIZE FACTOR?

Lions - weight
Average weight: 105.25kg
All Blacks average weight: 103.82kg

All Blacks - height
Average height: 188.12cm
Lions average height: 186.86cm

The All Blacks are taller and leaner, on this evidence. Hard to read into the weight department too much, with listings varying plenty depending on where you look*.

The backlines are pretty similarly matched, (Lions 94.95kg, All Blacks 95.25kg) with Sonny Bill Williams' 110kg a couple more than George North.

However in the pack the tourists average 114.25kg to New Zealand's 111.88kg, with a similar difference in the front row, where just one All Blacks prop (Charlie Faumuina) is listed as 120kg-plus, compared to six of the Lions' eight.

In the height stakes, however, it's the All Blacks who will look to utilise an advantage at lineout time.

Both Brodie Retallick (204cm) and Sam Whitelock (202cm) pip the Lions' two-metre boys, Courtney Lawes (201cm) and Iain Henderson (200cm), while the visitors don't have a lifting prop taller than 189cm, with the All Blacks' Wyatt Crockett (193cm) and Ofa Tu'ungafasi (192cm) providing some extra reach.

In the loose forwards, the All Blacks also boast Jerome Kaino and Liam Squire at 196cm, while the Lions' tallest is James Haskell, at 193cm.

Also worth a mention is Jordie Barrett's massive 196cm frame out the back, which eclipses the Lions' tallest back, George North, by 3cm.

copied from http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...quads-statistics-ahead-of-the-big-test-series

 

[Hasbeen]

I often wonder how accurate the published height and weight numbers are. A certain amount of fudging goes on I think. There seems to be a difference between Hoopers published height and weight figures and the reality when you meet him in real life - 1.82cm - total B.S.

 

[Gary Owen III]

Same is happening with the Sydney U14s.

Really? i guess you only see what you want to see. I can think of at least four smaller players that were selected in the final 23 over their larger rivals in the Sydney U14 Team.

 

[JuanBarn]

Mostly as finishers. Though the smallest guy selected is very highly skilled and a courageous tackler, it will be interesting to see who make the starting 15. My previous post was more about the lack of time and games these rep teams have together to make a team. (Hence the reliance on size) It's the skills in learning how to play together that make a champion team. (Eastwoods forwards were certainly not the biggest pack, but certainly knew how to deal with and outplay bigger packs) Rep u20s need to be playing more games, maybe somehow include their u20 championship with the NRC. If they are playing State rep u20 they should be able to compete with the NRC players who are also looking for Super Rugby contracts.


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[Breaks_Away]

In reference to Honey Badger and Juan Barn post 789 and 790 it flabbergasts me that selectors are still relying on size when the pick these teams something which is happening at schoolboy waratah and wallaby level to some extents. Classic case is Will Miller who went to play for the rebels this year got man of the Match and had not read their 100 page playbook after an all night trip from Aus to SA. Only 5'10".

Naturally you have to have some big kids but if they are all big kids where does the team get their electric play from? ie NSW2 last year Rixon and Armstrong both not big but very quick. Players like Pavlakis Turner Freeman from NSW are those that are unlucky not to be picked in say the Baa Baa team

What is even more grating is big kids who are picked who can attack but cannot tackle at all.

Again schoolboy coaches are copying coaches above and just pick size. Look at the Aust boys backrow Moretti Conners Rourke and Tizzano. Firstly all deserve to be all played fantastically well but who is going to get the ball?

We will not beat the NZ with big units - they will lap this up.

I agree with you first phase,

It seems to be the consensus on G&G that size has definitely played a factor upon Selections for both the Aus Sch teams with speed aggression, high positional skill sets coming a close second, I only say this because when it came to selecting openside flankers Selectors had in front of them a (Natural) specialist #7 Turner who from the very first day had a write up on Rugby news eye catcher saying:
Harry Turner - 'Came on and looked the most accomplished openside flanker of the day. Scored a try but it was his hard nosed work at the defensive breakdown which made the biggest impact"

He consistently proved his high level abilities as an openside flanker clearly seen, heard and documented throughout the tournament his first try V Q2 was scored after a minute coming on the field (2nd half) breaking from the scrum going from the left side back to right scoring in the corner his second try V Victoria scored within 4 minutes of the 1st half through support play showing great step and determination the 3rd Try within the same game 2nd half less than a minute from kick off once again through support play and showing great pace certainly an impact player who's overall skill as an openside flanker out weighed ( excuse the pun) that of the two 7's who were selected into Schools & Baa baas (reviews, commentators, Rugby media, Rugbycom ( Turner by name Turn(over) by nature) even on their own official site ( No mention on the ASRU official site during national champs at all of the other #7's that made Schools!) ASRU Australian Schoolboys write up: Turner had been likened to Michael Hooper "line breaks, winning crucial ruck turnovers, constant threat in attack and defence adding a brief reference to size, flowing on with further traits of hooper showing great aggression and speed, it' wasn't Turners size that Rugby news defined him with, it was his exceptional openside flanker skills ,support play, turnovers aggression and speed that they found defined him.

Therefore in the case of #7 Selectors went for size ( heavier boys) I too believe they need to throw into the mix more Spealist players rather than weighty players, as that's the way to match NZ Schools, play them at their own game strength, mongrel, aggression speed and impact is the key

Hopefully they will move some numbers around and bring in some of those boys that have more than proved their weight in gold!





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