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New Blog Post: 2018 changes to Sydney schools rugby fixtures

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Chris McKivat (8)
What a disgrace. The players get to play 5 games that count over almost a 5 month period (early April - mid August). So more endless, meaningless, dragged out 'trials', with players going on and off etc.

It would have to be one of the most ridiculous schoolboy rugby competition formats in the world with pretty much if you lose the first game you're out of the title hunt. No wonder many GPS players are looking to play SG Ball over the summer to get some competition.

What irks me the most is the lack of consultation. The regressive approach is very disappointing to say the least.

Speaking with some of the players this year they made it clear they just wanted the competition to start and when it did (1 game) it was holidays?!!

The rep games in the holidays are a joke and basically ruin what little of the 4 games in the competition is left with various injuries. Most of the kids I know would rather try and win the comp first for the school - rep should be after the comp and if players are worried about their HSC then so be it.

What positives did we see in 2017's format - what did we learn? (obviously nothing)

Let's hope Twiggy stirs up enough of the rugby world to create change and quickly!
 

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Interesting change.

At least at some point it could be an prize for taking out the preseason competition.

I am sure that two rounds was tough for most. However it did decide a true winner. With one round loss one and its over. The associations could look at a semi or GF match. Perhaps like NRL the premiership and the GF winners can be two different teams.

Why not run the Waratah shield in to that format as with the very poor form of Hills this year they could just be left out.
 

Rich_E

Ron Walden (29)
I've added below the comments that were made in the actual blog (see link to blog at top of this page) so that all comments and discussion is in the one place.

.
 

Rich_E

Ron Walden (29)
"Johnno" said, 10 days ago:


It's a bit disappointing these minor-reforms.. They didn't go far enough(not remotely) and it seems this is what the CAS/GPS schools are saying(ISA has been more progressive as they only started in the 1990's).... But it's clear these reforms say the following.

1)Traditions:
It's the year "2017" and these GPS/CAS schools value outdated traditions over modern society/modern life. In soccer we scrapped the outdated NSL, we should scrap the GPS... Old boys networks wins for the worst for OZ rugby. And also most students and parents are not even part of these old boys networks, it's just the school boards and headmasters that are calling the shots..

2) Schools rugby culture: These schools have also made it clear in the year 2017, they don't see it as there role to be rugby factories to be elite talent factories for the ARU and making the wallabies competitive vs the All Blacks isn't a priority.. It's a big F** U to the ARU, that they want to be left alone and stop being pestered or pressured from Australian rugby(fans and ARU) to be rugby factories and unlike in NZ where the schools have given up there rugby sovereignty and let the NZRU run the schools program and make the schools rugby factories(despite concerns and protests by some kiwi parents about the rugby obsession the NZRU and rugby factory culture now in NZ schools) they press head in the name of All Black dominance. These Sydney private schools don't have the same desire or allowance to be pressured by rabbid OZ rugby fans/or ARU to turn there schools into rugby factories. Well in saying that I don't want to see these headmasters publicly complain about the wallabies woes vs the AB's if they are not willing to be part of the solution nor see it as there role to be rugby factories to be more competitive vs the AB's...

3)Merged comp: This should of happened but "tradition" sadly in this case has won. CAS for example, has been a Knox/Waverley monopoly for a long time now. Cranbrook for example have won only 1-title in 23 years and were hopeless this year. Not sure the last time Trinity/Aloys/Barker won a title.
The sydney division-1 title should of been Scot's vs Waverley, but instead these schools could only play in trials if they played this year. Scots have won 5 straight GPS titles. None of these monopolies and dominance by the big schools is good for developing elite talent. But hay the headmasters don't see it as there responsibility to develop elite pathways and talent so they won't buckle and fix there competition structures to make the wallabies more competitive and our super rugby sides. Stuff like commercialisation of schoolboy rugby. blockbuster matches $$, and making money, and TV deals $$, and big local derbies, this sorta of stuff just aint a priority for these headmasters. Im sure the parents must be getting annoyed by this, and they want there kids to get a rugby edge in more competitive structures. Well I want big crowds and commercialisation nd tv deals for school boy rugby like in other countries e.g. NZ have a big major sponsor and tv deals, 1st 15 rugby is very commercialised there despite some parents complaints about this corporate culture and rugby factory culture obsession. I want big money spinner wider audience blockbusters, and Scots vs Waverley fighting for the Sydney title would have got a big crowd and tv ratings. But no the outdated headmasters don't want such hype and commercialisation, they are a "closed shop" not a wider audiences business model.

4)Junior club rugby the future:
This latest strategic direction by the sydney private schools, has re-affirmed my point, most schools in OZ don't have the resources/desire/or facilities to produce elite rugby pathways and competitions... It's now up to the ARU to invest heavily in junior club rugby and make it the focus to develop elite talent by having elite comps like rugby league has e.g. SG Ball/Harrold Matthews...

5)Nothing new:
This is just re-spin they used to do this in the 90's, play trial games vs other schools, then have a 1 round close association comps..

6)Merger name: If a merger name was to happen which I support and tams placed in divisions based on strength/or ZONED Geography I'd name the comp ISA...Merging under 1-banner/or admin/and centralization would be better, but alas the headmasters don't want to produce elite rugby pathways they don't see it as there problem or desire too...

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Rich_E

Ron Walden (29)
"Greg Truman" said, 9 days ago:


Rugby's fundamental, debilitating problem--one that has now brought the sport to its knees in Australia while it flourishes just about everywhere else--is its history and continued insistence on defining itself as an exclusive sport. While aspects of this plan are positive, it's still a private school v private school development model. The GPS, CAS and ISA are fine bodies and the standard of footy is terrific, but there are literally millions of kids who play sport and do not attend these schools. They go to government schools and play sport through district clubs. There has to be an outreach from traditional rugby nurseries (and of course the tragically flawed ARU) to provide opportunities for those kids. Sure, a government high school can't compete with Joeys, but a combined CHS team might be competitive, or a selective bush team. What's wrong with Sydney Under 18s, 16, 14 etc playing in those 'trial' fixtures -- or CHS squads (selected the previous season) competing? They'd have to be part of a fixture list that blends their participation on game day with a schoolboy program, but what is there to lose? Numbers in private school rugby programs are dwindling. The standard of the game in Australia is mediocre and Australia's rugby IQ is appalling. The sport is a whipping boy, and deservedly so, because its culture has traditionally been condescending and acutely self interested. Development can't only be about improving the quality of the shrinking private school playing base, there is an imperative to create a larger/broader base, drawing on talent from everywhere and giving it structured opportunities to flourish. Nibbling around the edges of the problem won't work.

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Response to above by "Johnno", 9 days ago


Agree, but that's the thing whose gonna pay for CHS rep teams to play on regular saturdays. The NSW State Govt won't fund saturday sports teachers in public schools(unlike private schools who pay there teachers to coach sport on saturdays).. The ARU or sponsors will hav to be found to fund coaching 3 days a week after school and on saturday(match day).. I agree though I'd have no problem with CHS Zoned teams playing in GPS or CAS etc..

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Rich_E

Ron Walden (29)
"Paul Findlay" said, 4 days ago:

As a former old boy and 1st XV player from a GPS school, I'm all for the tradition to be retained. There's nothing like tribalism and rivalries to drive passion in the game. I think Sydney Club Rugby has proven that over the past couple of years. Every competition is trying to build that loyalty to their product and without it, the game dies.

However I can't see why they can't combine the 2-3 comps currently run into one competition. You'll retain the traditional grudge matches, increase the numbers of games improving game craft and skills of all teams, and provide opportunities for kids to test themselves against the so called better teams in the Sydney Schools pond. There's no reason why the current competition tables couldn't be run concurrently with the expanded comp table, as is the case with the Bledisloe and Rugby Championship, so there would still be a GPS Premiers and a CAS Premier etc. It would also produce a much better Australian Schools Team as the standard would rise across all teams.

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Joe King

Dave Cowper (27)
Would be good if something like the Waratah Shield became important to all the private schools during the long trial period. Play it on Wednesday arvos. Extra game-experience, match-fitness, and competition would be good for their main schools competition anyway, not to mention the boy's enthusiasm. Don't need to worry about injuries. School kids are capable of playing on both Saturday and Sunday if they want to. They bounce back and recover so quickly.
 
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"Greg Truman" said, 9 days ago:


Rugby's fundamental, debilitating problem--one that has now brought the sport to its knees in Australia while it flourishes just about everywhere else--is its history and continued insistence on defining itself as an exclusive sport. While aspects of this plan are positive, it's still a private school v private school development model. The GPS, CAS and ISA are fine bodies and the standard of footy is terrific, but there are literally millions of kids who play sport and do not attend these schools. They go to government schools and play sport through district clubs. There has to be an outreach from traditional rugby nurseries (and of course the tragically flawed ARU) to provide opportunities for those kids. Sure, a government high school can't compete with Joeys, but a combined CHS team might be competitive, or a selective bush team. What's wrong with Sydney Under 18s, 16, 14 etc playing in those 'trial' fixtures -- or CHS squads (selected the previous season) competing? They'd have to be part of a fixture list that blends their participation on game day with a schoolboy program, but what is there to lose? Numbers in private school rugby programs are dwindling. The standard of the game in Australia is mediocre and Australia's rugby IQ is appalling. The sport is a whipping boy, and deservedly so, because its culture has traditionally been condescending and acutely self interested. Development can't only be about improving the quality of the shrinking private school playing base, there is an imperative to create a larger/broader base, drawing on talent from everywhere and giving it structured opportunities to flourish. Nibbling around the edges of the problem won't work.

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Response to above by "Johnno", 9 days ago


Agree, but that's the thing whose gonna pay for CHS rep teams to play on regular saturdays. The NSW State Govt won't fund saturday sports teachers in public schools(unlike private schools who pay there teachers to coach sport on saturdays).. The ARU or sponsors will hav to be found to fund coaching 3 days a week after school and on saturday(match day).. I agree though I'd have no problem with CHS Zoned teams playing in GPS or CAS etc..

.
 
S

sidelineview

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Interestingly, a healthy mid week rugby comp used to be run in the public school system.
It was a long time ago but 2 players at least were selected from public schools for the first Australian Scoolboys team: Steve Finnane from Vaucluse High and Russell Fairfax from Matraville High.
So what happened along the way to cause the demise of rugby in public schools?
Matraville High teams would have given any private school team a run for their money with players like the Ellas but league is now played at the school.
 
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There should be no reason why 2 seperate comps couldnt be run concurrently to make life interesting for everyone instead of the overload of mind numbing trial games.
Schoolboy rugby is the most passionate arena of the game. Its unique, but instead of utilising it to expand and improve the game, its wasted on trial matches, some of which are interesting, but when its all said and done are still trial matches.
 

Gary Owen III

Syd Malcolm (24)
"Greg Truman" said, 9 days ago:


Agree, but that's the thing whose gonna pay for CHS rep teams to play on regular saturdays. The NSW State Govt won't fund saturday sports teachers in public schools(unlike private schools who pay there teachers to coach sport on saturdays).. The ARU or sponsors will hav to be found to fund coaching 3 days a week after school and on saturday(match day).. I agree though I'd have no problem with CHS Zoned teams playing in GPS or CAS etc..

.

Have the CHS & CCC schools players join the club scene - playing regular rugby on a Saturday in an U18's colts. Clubs are equipped to facilitate and coach at a high level - teachers whom want to be involved still can be but it takes the onus off the schools and teachers whom have no interest.

Then allow the CHS and CCC to select their Rep teams from their players participating in this comp.

Seems like a win-win , clubs have a vibrant comp and the schools have their players improved by playing regular rugby. Maybe then they could see more CHS & CCC players going further along the pathway to Aust Schools....
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
I believe this is a step in the right direction to be honest. Most people who follow and post comments regarding school boy rugby tend to be only interested or motivated by the fortunes of their school's 1stXV. Whilst this is all well and good, the majority of rugby played doesn't involve these teams and this is where the big problems lie. Retention of rugby players is of far greater importance than the for and against of one team and the slow demise of some traditional rugby schools can be attributed not to the fortunes of their first XV, but to the experience had by their 13Es, Fs and Gs. Getting slaughtered on a weekly basis doesnt lead to ongoing, lifelong participation.

On face value, this system seeks to address this and this is a good thing.
 
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