2012 Australian Schools & National Championships

This was posted on the Australian School's website a few days ago:

"2012 SEASON UPDATE

Wednesday, 25 January 2012


In 2012 the Australian Schools Rugby Championships will be in Sydney at Riverview College from 1st to 7th July inclusive.

This will include teams from Queensland ( 2 teams), NSW (2 teams), ACT, WA, Victoria and a Combined States team (selected from those who do not make one of their State Teams)

This year the Division 2 games will be at the same time and place as Division 1—with Tasmania, SA, NT and Lloyd McDermott teams competing

Tongan Schools will be touring here—also in early July and a Presidents XV-- selected from the four Division 2 teams will play Tonga on Saturday 7th.

Australia A and Australia will then play Tonga in the week after the Championships in Sydney

Australian Schools will tour to Fiji and NZ in late September"

early predictions for a 15?

Too early for me but I wouldn't be surprised if there are plenty of NGS players in both the Oz Schoolboys and the Schoolboys A teams.

I find it frustrating that the Aust Schools Championships are so out of sync with the Sydney GPS season. ( it commences on July 28th). therefore selections of GPS squads ( and NSW) will be on trial form alone ( 3 to 4 trial games maximum and coaches/players still not settled into final positions???).
Certainly players match fitness has to be compromised by this timing.
Is this problem the same for all the other NSW schools associations ? Does it also occur in Qld??
Following on from this logistical blunder Aust. Schools insist on touring in September...the Year 12 boys in the touring squad arriving home 2 to 3 days before the HSC exams commence..why is this necessary?

Its all very badly organised - i just checked all of the CAS schools and none of them has the 2012 fixture list on its website. Some of them have already started back.
I wonder what the fees would be if they kept the parents informed?

In other words they dont need to see the kids play because they have already identified the candidates.
Yet more evidence of the hit and miss nature of development.

NSW CHS have their State Carnival in late May 2012 and will pick their initial teams shortly after that. They'll then have quite a number of trial games throughout June before finalising their first team selections for their game against GPS firsts on Friday 22nd June..all up a lead in time of more than three weeks. On the other hand the GPS teams will be selected about one week beforehand after about 3-4 GPS school trial games and will play CAS firsts on Tuesday 19th June after probably no more than two training runs and then back up against CHS on the Friday. Despite their short preparation and team selections before the finish of the GPS competition (and this year before the start of it!!) GPS continues to dominate both GPS and CHS in their annual games.

While my heart bleeds for the GPS chaps the ISA will continue its well tried efforts to shoot itself in the foot with regards to giving its players the best possible preperation for selection. Early trial which could be best described as a dogs breakfast (take a jumper your playing 12 but I'm an 8?) where 2nd division players can outnumber the Augustines and Oakhill players, then squads are announced, followed 4 weeks later by a meet and greet in the Blue Mountains then no further contact until the game against CHS on a sunday after playing a competition game the day before. The 1st XV then train on the thursday prior to the CAS game. If you can make NSW Schools after that shit fight you deserve your place.

Players like Domkins, Hooper, Hingano and Keahry will shine and get through but a lot of better players don't even get selected at ISA due to the failings of the system. If a trial must be played then play Augustines against Oakhill as possibles and probables and add any other school nominated players to each squad. At the very least this would provide some cohesion and stability and allow players to show some form. This years team could potentially carry seven Sydney U17's and a couple of 16's from 2010 who were injured in 2011 which is the basis for a very competetive side if the selections are done correctly. Having said that I won't be holding my breath to see if they know who is available to be selected.

Finally, I agree that many NGS players will be selected whether in form and deserving or not as it is a massive loss of face to those that run the system if they don't justify their existence.[/quote]

QLD is in the same boat for the first time. The GPS season is now taking place in Term 3 after the mid-year holidays, as the soccer/rugby seasons have been split so that students can play both. The trial games in QLD will be condensed and there won't be an opportunity to play any trial matches against AIC schools as has been common in the past.

Yeah... years of viewing these kids play before bringing them into NGS and then 3 days a week of intense skill development and assessment , You're right they probably don't need to see them play. Many NGS kids aren't good enough to play Australian schools, and don't. Then there's kids like Will Miller who got there via combined states. An absolute standout for Aus schools V NZ. IS, do you have a better idea of how to develop talented rugby kids ?

Having all the supposedly talented kids in each location/region/city playing in 1 comp against each other, week in week out, instead of splintering them through 3, 4 or 5 school systems (+ a junior club system) and then picking them in rep teams when they havent even played each other in the comps we do have.
What chance a GPS U16 getting a look in if he hasn't already been identified, by way of example.

Is this a riddle, because I'm not good at 'em. The 16 Y.O from GPS or from whereever has the same chance as every other 16 Y.O. if they're good enough, they'll be identified. I can't say I see any merit in your 1 comp idea, the same age kids in NGS would have played each other numerous times via school,club and rep pathways.

Where did the 16 y.o's get identified? Who says this kid is the best 5/8 in GPS u 16s when they havent played against each other?
Some schools dont permit their kids to play club and hence, I assume, rep.
Kids who aren't in the same school systems dont routinely play each other.

One comp is a logistical impossibility when you're talking about school boys. Either the comp is ridiculously long so that every rugby playing school can play one another (denying many talented school boy athletes to try their hand at other sports. or academia). or you have only a few rugby playing schools so as to see every candidate for higher honours play each other.

The current system may be flawed, but this is not the solution.

Please read my post properly - I did not say the schools should all play each other, did I?
I said all the talented kids should play together.

If you want better development you have to take the schools out of the equation so that kids can play where their level suits them.

I think you'll find that any NSW or Qld 16yo's (and 17 and 18 year olds for that matter) currently in the NGS have well and truly earned their places there and have been playing rugby since quite an early age, starting in club and then at school in their secondary years with near all of them continuing in club rugby as well. You'll find too that they have all continually tested themselves against all comers through selection in club, zone, country, city, state ands schools rep sides over a quite a number of years -

It's a circular argument. how would you identify the 'talented' kids you say should play together? Selection ala NGS (which you have a problem with) or perhaps we could get every 'talented' kid to play every other 'talented' kid to determine who in fact is 'talented' enough to play in your competition.

You play district/village based comps In various divisions. The kids know what level they want to play and whether they're up to it.
Ditch the schools.
It takes a bit of imagination but it wouldn't take long from u10 up for the comp to naturally sort itself out as kids and teams find their levels.
As it stands in some years the schools get only 2 or 3 truly competitive games.
It will never happen but I was asked what was a better system for developing players.


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it's not so much about who gets in but as much about who gets left out. Limiting opportunity to a small group of players is counter productive to success at the national level when the game is competing against the other codes. Many talented kids walk away to other sports feeling there is no pathway to the top level if you haven't made these elitist squads by 16. What we should be doing is opening up opportunities to as many young players as possible to prevent them falling through the net and ending up in another sport. Unfortunately this would require some funding and the ARU doesn't believe in growing the game from the roots up.

There are plenty of opportunities for those who don't make the NGS (there are about 90 places in this squad throughout Australia with NSW and Qld having roughly 30 spots each) as in the JGS in Metropolitan Sydney alone there are about 210 spots for 14-18 year olds in a weekly program. In addition there are JGS squads in regional centres in NSW as well. All up about 700 boys participate in the JGS program nationally so I'd suggest that the ARU does in fact believe in growing the game as they fully fund both programs. Boys who excel in the JGS can also be elevated to the NGS at any time during the year.