2012 England tour to SA

Wynand back again? How many times will that guy get picked only to underwhelm at international level? Some players excel at the level below test rugby, but never step up. Wynand Olivier has proved this to be the case, what, 34 times?

Unfortunately we are short a captain at the moment, because Frans Steyn should play 12, not Jean de Villiers.

Whitehead at 12 for the Sharks has impressed me this season. He runs great lines, support play is excellent, quite a rarity in SA backs. Decent front on defence, but a bit worried about his organisation.

Look like Jean will play 13. he played there most of his schooldays. Whitehead is still way behind JdJ in the line.

JdJ is good, and proven over multiple seasons, agree he's ahead, but keep an eye on Whitehead.

I don't ever want to see Wynand in Green again. For years he has shown good Super Rugby form, gets picked for the Boks, and turns to pooh.

Heyneke is going to go conservative and will make as few as possible rookie selections. Having said that I would still play JdV and JdJ. They are a combination and their defense is fantastic. My second choice is F Steyn at 12 with JdV at 13.

Whitehead cetainly looks good but has not done nearly enough to be a Bok bolter. Frans Steyn and JdJ for me is the combo that should take us to the next World Cup.

Yup, fair enough, I'm a big believer in combinations, and if that combo is working then could do worse than keeping them together.

However, I do think Frans Steyn is a player to pick against England. Hard to pin down why I think that, probably a combination of size, power, brutal defence, and massive boot, fit the game required to beat England.

News 24

No Kolisi?

or Ebersohn, Whitehead, Ashley.

Good to see Josh Strauss, Taute in the mix.

Ebersohn probably missed out because other known midfield would need to be compromised in order to accommodate him i.e JdV & JdJ, Olivier & JJ Engelbrecht etc. Glad to see a few other names there

I believe Taute and JJ Engelbrecht will have a good chance for the 13 jumper (although judging by the draught of the list it appears Taute is preferred at 15). Elstadt also didn't make it. Johnson is heading overseas so not too disappointed that he wasn't selected. Also, I believe the other loosies are so good anyway it won't matter.

Consider injured, young as well as overseas Boks.

Duane Vermeulen
Siya Kolisi
Dewald Potgieter
Schalk Burger
Rynhard Elstadt
Ruan Pienaar
Francois Steyn
Nizaam Carr
Steven Kitshoff
Johan Sadie (although recent form has been poor)
Frans Malherbe

Agree he should be there but ahead of who?

I can see the problem though. Not sure how you pick a balanced test back row with Kolisi in it. He is not really a fetcher, not a typically big South African 7 and canlt see him play 8.

It's tough one because he is good.

Coetzee? Well you cannot ignore his stats.

Stander? Typical 7 that Meyer will just like. Bulls or not.

Josh Strauss? Not sure we will see him in a test.

So no Frans Steyn in Meyer's squad does that mean he is not picking him for England?

Where is Frans Steyn right now?

The frog season is over?

Sport24

Coetzee stats


If he want a proper SA 7, he may just aswell go for Elstadt.

I'd have to disagree there. JJ has only played a handful of games for the Bulls at 13 and mainly when Sadie has been injured. He certainly hasn't set the world alight in his time there either, particularly on defence. If he struggled defensively against the Rebels, he could be horribly exposed at test level! Meyer obviously rates him to include him in this training squad but I think he will be one of the first to go once the squad is trimmed down.

IMO, the centre combination will be one of the following:

12 - F. Steyn, 13 - de Villiers
12 - de Villiers, 13 - de Jongh
12 - Olivier, 13 - de Villiers (certainly not my choice, but I think Heyneke is a fan of Wynand)

Furthermore, I can't work out why there would be a need to include 6 specialist winger's, 7 if you include JJ, in a training squad of this size?! Doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, it must be quite disappointing for Duvenage and McLeod to find out that they are rated, at best, the 5th and 6th best scrumhalves in South Africa (if you consider that du Preez and Pienaar were not included on that list) under the new coaching regime. I would not be surprised if either of these two decides to go chase a big money move overseas in the next year or two.

Yeah JJ Englelbrecht to me is the most lucky to make the squad. HE hasn't done anything special but I suppose he has been played out of position.

Duvenhage: Solid but not spectacular.

McCleod: Error prone.

They will probably both leave soon because they are no chance.

Paarl:

A South African 7 needs to be able to carry the ball. Never more so than under Heyneke. Elstadt barely ever carries and when he does he almost never breaks the line. He is a great player, but he doesn't have all the skills for a test 7 who has to be able to break the line. He gets tackled back surprisingly easily for a guy of his size. Maybe it is a technique issue but until he fixes it consistently he will not be picked. I'm a fan, but he only has part of the package. Fact.

Tell you what Coetzee can get handed off like that once every game because he'll get up and make another 20 tackles in the game.I'd have him before Elstad every day of the week.

Interesting view from John Smit on what is in store for England's SA born players:

I think in the Rugby Championship it will probably be F.Steyn and de Villiers and yes, I agree JJ has not set the world alight perhaps at 13 yet, however I've heard good things about the lad. Perhaps later in his career. On that point, I don't like de Villiers at 13. Personally I feel a 12 is a 12 and a 13 is a 13. Look at the difference in performance of Steyn at 12 and at 13, de Villiers at 12 and at 13 and also de Jongh, who is better at 13.

Fantasy combination:

9. Hougaard
10. Goosen
12. F. Steyn
13. J. Taute

The same can be said about Spies. Also remember that Elstadt has not found the form he had last season but he is steadily improving at number 7.

Why would anyone want Taute at 13 ahead of de Jongh??

What has he done at 13? Nothing.

On another front Dewald Potgieter just played himself right into Bok reckoning with his best game in 2 years.