2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August

[Mr Doug]

he was coming from the Crusaders franchise. Incredibly successful. One that a lot of rugby players aspire to play for. A lot of us kiwis thought he would be the man to take charge after the disaster that was RWC 2007. Me too, to my embaressment. On a cursory examination he did indeed look like the man to step up to the next level of coaching.

We did not know that guys like Richie and Dan did not support him. This obviously was not passed on to the ARU.

But here is a thought. Say the ABs destroy SA and the Argies, and Australia beat Argies and SA, coming 2nd in the Rugby championship. How would that look? Would it not be seen as some vindication of Robbie? Australia would be firmly placed at number 2. Just throwing that thought out there!

Me too Teach, I'm just saddened to think that Robbie hasn't been more successfull, as he had few peers at Super Rugby level!
I doubt that we will beat either the Boks or Los Pumas (I'll be at that match), so another bleak off-season ahead for us! ABs are worthy #1 IMHO!

 

[Mr Doug]

I think the reasons for Deans getting knocked back for the AB's have been well litigated and in the absence of a tell all book from one of the selection committee are conjecture only. If I had to guess, and from what little has come out via "confidential sources" (ie PIDOOMA by Zavos et al) the following seem as good a bet as any:

1) He was tarnished by his involvement in the Mitchell/Deans era, where boozing was out of control, and the AB's played some good rugby, and an awful lot of dumb rugby

2) He had a bad interview, when he was asked to name his assistants, he hadn't even thought about them. He apparently attended the interview having given no thought for the style of game and culture he wanted the team to play.

3) The cartel had just delivered 4 years of exceptional results, including 2 grandslams, 3 Tri-Nations, holding the Bledisloe, and a comprehensive annihilation of the Lions in all 3 tests. This was tempered, obviously, by the RWC result, but then strategy of changing coaches after every RWC loss hadn't worked in the past, so they tried another strategy (plus Henry probably convinced them the Q-F loss came in extraordinary circumstances).

4) The players backed Henry over Deans.


As for Deans finding it hard to coach against those he knows, well maybe, but it also gives him an edge in formulating strategies to beat them (not that it seems to have worked too well). On the whole, I suspect that Deans is a pro and is doing his level best, but a combination of a clash of rugby cultures, the players just not being up to it and his own failings as a coach have meant that he just hasn't succeeded as well as people had hoped.

Why you lot rehired him before the RWC is a mystery.

DamO, I can't disagree with anything you've said here!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Me too Teach, I'm just saddened to think that Robbie hasn't been more successfull, as he had few peers at Super Rugby level!
I doubt that we will beat either the Boks or Los Pumas (I'll be at that match), so another bleak off-season ahead for us! ABs are worthy #1 IMHO!

Im kind of thinking I'd like to go for next year - have you been before?
They cant relegate us can they?

 

[Beefcake]

I suspect even if the Wob had won the WC, his record vs the ABs would be THE telling measure of his tenure... Did the ARU set him up to fail?

 

[Richo]

I suspect even if the Wob had won the WC, his record vs the ABs would be THE telling measure of his tenure. Did the ARU set him up to fail?

No. If they had, he wouldn't have gotten a bloody extension before the RWC.

 

[Scorz]

he was coming from the Crusaders franchise. Incredibly successful.

Unfortunately it's inevitable that his reputation from then will be questioned by his plummet from grace with the Wobbs.
Personally, I wonder if he didn't just inherit most of it - a very good coach who was in the right place at the right time to look like a genius. I wonder what Wayne Smith thinks.

 

[emuarse]

There was a boy at school who was expelled.
On leaving, he went to see the school chaplain, and said to him, "I'm sorry I failed, sir".
The chaplain, upon reflection, replies, "No Bill, I'm sorry the school failed you".

Would the chaplain have said the same thing to Robbie Deans vis-a-vis the ARU?

 

[Scoey]

It's a shame that the marquee player rules don't apply at international level. If we could simply import a big specialist ball-busting 13 and a number 8 that hits rucks/collisions like a bowling ball hits the pins we'd be set. Haha! Kidding! No I'm not! Haha! Yes I'm KIDDING!! But seriously. What?

 

[Riptide]

We did not know that guys like Richie and Dan did not support him. This obviously was not passed on to the ARU.

Teach, this is interesting but how do you know this? I was aware that McCaw and Carter offered their support to Henry when Henry sounded them out on whether he should re-apply for the head coaching gig. However, I was not aware that these players "did not support" Deans.

 

[Swat]

It's a shame that the marquee player rules don't apply at international level. If we could simply import a big specialist ball-busting 13

Someone should tell the Poms........

 

[teach]

Teach, this is interesting but how do you know this? I was aware that McCaw and Carter offered their support to Henry when Henry sounded them out on whether he should re-apply for the head coaching gig. However, I was not aware that these players "did not support" Deans.

It is a hard thing to pin down exactly what went on. Without knowing the full details of what was said exactly, the clear impression is that Carter and McCaw would not have been disappointed if Henry retained his job. i have some reasonably reliable sources and that is what I have gleaned from them. But even that is 2nd or 3rd hand.

I cannot say for sure if Deans was unsupported, or given less support by them or even actively denigrated, and am not going to make up stuff. But I am certain that he was not favoured by them to take over.

Maybe we will never know for sure.

 

[Riptide]

Ok, fair enough. I thought the impression left was that Deans was not wanted by Carter or McCaw to be the AB coach.

 

[mudskipper]

Ok, fair enough. I thought the impression left was that Deans was not wanted by Carter or McCaw to be the AB coach.

Sounds like they were just happy with Henry... so why change?