2012R14 The battle of the TAHS (Chee vs Wara)@ Osfontein.

[I like to watch]

Ah, yes, the reflexive negativity. Always refreshing. Look, obviously it sucks to lose again and there were many disappointing elements of the match. But if you watched that game without seeing some positive signs then there's no hope that you'll ever enjoy watching the Waratahs play. Could it be that you prefer them to suck?

aaaaagh the old negativety bit!
Let's look at the positives!....we play really well each game but yet lose more than 2 out of 3!

I wonder if actual results form part of the KPI's?

After 13 games, I would have thought that
Target = 10-11 wins ( top 2 & looking at home semi)
Standard = 8-9 wins (in the top 6)
minimum = 6-7 wins (not in top 6 but success rate 50%)
Actual performance = 4 wins
In what business environment would there not be some very uncomfortable conversations at this stage?

 

[Richo]

aaaaagh the old negativety bit!
Let's look at the positives!....we play really well each game but yet lose more than 2 out of 3!

I wonder if actual results form part of the KPI's?

After 13 games, I would have thought that
Target = 10-11 wins ( top 2 & looking at home semi)
Standard = 8-9 wins (in the top 6)
minimum = 6-7 wins (not in top 6 but success rate 50%)
Actual performance = 4 wins
In what business environment would there not be some very uncomfortable conversations at this stage?

Come on. I was responding specifically to Inside Shoulders' relentless negativity -- "two worst sides in the comp", etc. Do I need to point out all the negatives -- which are overwhelmingly obvious and have already been pointed out ad nauseum -- in order to note that there were some good periods of play from the Waratahs on Sunday morning? Does it excuse the season? No. Does it excuse the loss? No.

Obviously the Tahs season is a colossal failure but in my opinion there are some fans who almost prefer it that way.

Or, to use your business analogy, it's like spending all your time worrying about why no one buys your Gadgets and never asking why they do buy your Widgets. No successful business environment runs like that, either.

 

[I like to watch]

Yeah, I see where you are coming from.But i also see what IS saying.
It does no good at all, highlighting everything that is not perfect,but equally the glass is not always half full is it?
There has to be a time when someone from within the camp acknowledges that things are not going to plan and they have instigated remedial action.
It's frustrating being a Tah's fan isn't it.

 

[waratahjesus]

Someone from within the camp has highlighted something being wrong every single week, yourself and other have somehow managed to ignore this to simply dwell on the positive they say as "denial".

 

[I like to watch]

Let's agree that you think they are acknowledging their shortfalls, and I think they keep raising excuses.
But we could debate the fact that based on results, his position is untenable.
Or we could debate that as he has the least debutantes this year, he is doing the poorest job in our conference in developing his squad, even though a major excuse is a massive injury toll.
Or we could debate that he had no input in the squad he inheritated from Hickey, despite the fact he was ass coach for 3 years and would have had a major say in ALL signings the past few years. In particular the 2 most controversial signings of Elsom & Vickerman have his DNA all over it given he was the forwards coach.
We could also debate the fact that 3 weeks prior to the season commencing he names an 8 man leadership group, and in the first game of the season appoints someone from OUTSIDE this group to captain the side....Three weeks prior to the season starting and he can't find a captain with his first 8 picks!!!!

 

[BPC]

Someone from within the camp has highlighted something being wrong every single week, yourself and other have somehow managed to ignore this to simply dwell on the positive they say as "denial".

True, but it's easier to identify the problem than it is to fix the problem. Foley et al may be able to talk about the problems in the post-match interviews but it seems that either nothing is being done to fix the problems or whatever is being done is not sufficient.

Despite the talk about Foley being on thin ice, there is plenty of blame to go around - coach, assistants, and players. Given this has been going on for some time, there needs to be a complete overhaul at some point - coaches, players or both. The Brumbies were lucky that a lot of players left, so they could overhaul the roster at the same time Jake White came in. The Tahs probably won't be so lucky so the changes need to be planned and carefully implemented. I doubt the Board/management has the intestinal fortitude so it should be the first to be gutted abnd rebuilt.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Come on. I was responding specifically to Inside Shoulders' relentless negativity -- "two worst sides in the comp", etc. Do I need to point out all the negatives -- which are overwhelmingly obvious and have already been pointed out ad nauseum -- in order to note that there were some good periods of play from the Waratahs on Sunday morning? Does it excuse the season? No. Does it excuse the loss? No.

Obviously the Tahs season is a colossal failure but in my opinion there are some fans who almost prefer it that way.

Or, to use your business analogy, it's like spending all your time worrying about why no one buys your Gadgets and never asking why they do buy your Widgets. No successful business environment runs like that, either.

I can see what you're saying - but some part of my negativity is a response to the endless optimism and tireless preparedness to look for the good. These are professional sportsmen - not kids - they shouldn't be lied to about their performances.
I guess it probably comes back to whether you think there's something rotten in the joint or you think it just needs a new coat of paint. Self evidently I am in the former camp and I guess I am trying to persuade others that we have had enough new coats of paint without appreciable change in the outcome so now is the perfect chance to start again.
Its pointless i agree because none of the "optimists" will ever be persuaded. In consequence Foley will be retained, with no change in culture or personnel or Foley will become the scapegoat and there still won't be any change in culture.
You guys have driven me to give up on them completely.

 

[Richo]

I'm not an optimist about the Tahs, just not as negative as some. In my view, the glass might not be half full but there's something in there.

I'd like to see a clean out of the board, management and coaching. But typing that again and again and again is fucking boring. I prefer to look for some positives from time to time. There is a lot to build on with this Tahs team. Throwing all that our would not be productive.

 

[Capt_Funk]

In my view, the glass might not be half full but there's something in there... There is a lot to build on with this Tahs team.

agreed. i think that is what is so frustrating about watching them - they have the potential to be so much better than they are playing. the forwards are as good as any pack in super rugby. their scrum has proven to be one of the best - wasn't it against the stormers they won a tight head pushing the off the ball? you don't do that too often against any south african team. the backs haven't seemed to adapt to the personnel shuffling as well as the forwards have had to, but still they are a solid line-up and individually are all great players.

so everything's there to suggest they should be much higher up the ladder than they are. but they're not. and i can't figure out why.

 

[fatprop]

aaaaagh the old negativety bit!
Let's look at the positives!....we play really well each game but yet lose more than 2 out of 3!

In what business environment would there not be some very uncomfortable conversations at this stage?

They are "fun" conversations, if they end up in goal setting and KPIs I just shaked my head.

 

[Greg Growden]

I'm convinced that Inside Shoulder is Greg Growden.

Even I don't dribble that much.

 

[PaarlBok]

Willie le Roux has been outstanding in this match. Still cant figure why Naka dont use him in his preferred position of 10 or 15. probably now with hennie injured and Sias on the move.