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2013 Ashes Part I

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Peter Fenwicke (45)
I think not overturning KP's dismissal was the correct decision by the Third Umpire.

I disagree with you saying he definitely didn't hit it? On what basis?

All the evidence besides hotspot (which the manufacturer says will not pick up a faint edge) suggested he was out.

Contrast that to Khawaja's where every single piece of evidence suggested it wasn't out.

.

Agree regarding Khawaja, very different dismissals but they were the type of decision on which a game can be determined. That was a night & day decision for mine, the ball wasn't anywhere near the bat.

Regarding KP us arm-chair umpires can never really know whether he hit it or not but there was certainly a sound on the stump mic (whether it be ball on bat or simply his spikes shuffling on the pitch). The noise that accompanied it was loud enough to suggest there should have been something on hot spot, his reaction when being dismissed also indicated that he didn't believe he hit it. I'm no expert but when it comes to that type of situation I think the batsman should be given the benefit of the doubt. Obviously the on-field decision should be taken heavily into consideration and I think it was the right decision. The reaction of the Aussies behind the stump and in particular Siddle suggested they didn't believe he hit it, I refuse to believe snicko is any sort of confirmation as it is not in real time. Then again, it was KP so I'm happy for him to be given out and it really had no bearing on the game in the end. Had it been an Aussie batsman I wonder if we would all be reacting the same way? Also had we bowled England out it would have been a far bigger issue.

Reputation has to mean something in cricket and KP doesn't strike me as the kind of batsman who would intentionally pretend to not hit it. On the contrary the time he took to review perhaps suggests he wasn't sure himself. That's a fine line and although he is one of the more controversial blokes in world cricket he seems like an honest player (even Warne mentioned something along those lines).

I have no solution to DRS but I just think we are entering dangerous territory and the ICC needs to work out some sort of precedent or general rule of thumb for these kind of dismissals. Credit to the third ump on the consistency though, had he overturned that decision we would have some interesting headlines today. There at least appears to be some clarity now and this series is shaping up quite well, no longer is 5-0 on the cards and we are looking competitive again.

Quick ratings:
Rogers 8/10. Great first innings knock that set the tone and showed some great signs fielding. His experience is invaluable.
Watson 4/10. His bowling is proving his most valuable asset right now. How much longer do we keep persevering with him opening?.
Khawaja 4/10. Never looked threatening in either innings but has all the shots to be a solid middle order player. No 5 would be a better position IMO.
Clarke 9.5/10. Our best by a considerable margin, first innings knock was world class. Good decisions in the field minus the Root drop.
Smith 8/10. Looks to be in great form with the bat just fell short of a ton, wasn't at his best with the ball but proving to be a valuable asset.
Warner 6/10. Second innings proved he needs to be at the top of the order. Will get better in time once the Root situation blows over.
Haddin 8/10. Great first innings knock and very impressive game with the gloves, finally found some form and influence in the field.
Starc 5/10. Found bowling to the top order tough which was concerning but had notched a quick 50 with the bat to gloss over an average test.
Siddle 7/10. Always threatens and has a lion heart, big game player.
Harris 8/10. Our best bowler when fit and had the ball moving. He's got to be considered in the top 10 worldwide.
Lyon 5/10. 1 wicket in what was a very disappointing showing, that pitch had plenty to offer spinners and he failed to get anything out of it.
 

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Peter Fenwicke (45)
Durham will be interesting being the first Ashes test ever played up in that part of England. Having ventured up there in 2011 I can say it is a truly beautiful part of the UK, can't wait to see what scenic tours has planned for tea break specials with Mark Nicholas.

It's the type of pitch where there will always be a result. Statistically speaking most county matches end up with a result in 4 days or so (can't recall where I heard that but one of the BBC commentators brought it up last night).

Regardless, our team needs to be much the same. Only personnel changes will be injury/fatigue related. We will probably see a reshuffle at the top of the order but I'd like this XI to take the field.

Warner
Rogers
Khawaja
Clarke
Smith
Watson
Haddin
Starc
Bird
Siddle
Lyon

Harris will be rested, that is nearly certainty and I think Bird is the only logical replacement. Watto down the order so we can start positively and he won't have to worry about the new ball. Three right handers in the middle order will negate Swann's left armers, we have to persist with Khawaja at 3 right now unless Rogers goes down to first drop and Watson opens. Smith could potentially then be 6 with Khawaja at 5. Hughes is still very unlucky but we have to be consistent with these guys .

Starc didn't impress me but chopping and changing that bowling order is not a good idea and Cummins needs to prove that he isn't made of glass before he dons the baggy green again.

I really need to stop thinking cricket and get back to work. Ah, it's only tuesday :(
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
light - I think the two telling things with the KP dismissal were that Haddin was sure about it (compare that to Haddin's dismissal to end the first test where no one except Prior behind the stumps was completely sure there was an edge).

The other one is that KP waited quite a while to review. He went and talked to the non-striker etc. Normally he would ask for a review immediately if he was sure he hadn't hit it, but he had a bit of doubt too.

The benefit of the doubt goes to the umpire now. I think the third umpire was completely correct to uphold the umpire's decision in this situation because there was no compelling evidence to suggest that KP hadn't hit the ball.

I agree with most of your ratings but I think the rating of Starc is unnecessarily harsh. He took 3/76 in the first innings from 27 overs and scored 66 not out.

He is definitely playing third fiddle in our pace bowlers after Harris and Siddle and he bowls too many balls that the batsman can leave, but I also think he is bowling pretty well. He's not bowling a lot of four balls and his economy rate has been good in both tests he's played.

You also need to consider that he is doing much of his bowling at the worse of the two ends for pace bowlers (Siddle is generally replacing Harris at the preferred end).

Whilst he had some luck removing Cook with a great legside catch to Haddin, he also got the century maker, KP out in the first innings.

I'd say he deserves a 7/10 when you throw in the 66* but in that vein I'd say you've been overly generous to Warner with a 6 and Rogers and Smith with 8s. On that basis, Watson and Khawaja getting 4s is pretty generous too.
 

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Peter Fenwicke (45)
Jeez the whole batting tape thing has really blown up today. ICC officials are circling Durham and perhaps KP has something to answer for.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
So I guess the first thing is: can batsmen use tape on their bats (especially of the silicon variety)? Certainly I've seen it used many times, so this may be a grey area. If it is legal, where does that leave hotspot and the DRS?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
So I guess the first thing is: can batsmen use tape on their bats (especially of the silicon variety)? Certainly I've seen it used many times, so this may be a grey area. If it is legal, where does that leave hotspot and the DRS?

Traditionally it has been fibreglass tape used on bats as a repair tool and to strengthen the edges. The silicon tape seems to be something new and I'm not really sure if the benefit is that it is lighter than fibreglass and the potential to trick Hot Spot is just a helpful side effect.

If it does trick Hot Spot, they should just make it a playing condition of international cricket that it is illegal. It's not like international players need to repair cricket bats anyway. They just get a new one.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I asked a mate of mine last night who played cricket recently at a pretty high level for his thoughts. He said the same thing: tape up until now has been fibreglass and definitely used on edges of bats. Silicon appears to be the new thing.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Jeez the whole batting tape thing has really blown up today. ICC officials are circling Durham and perhaps KP has something to answer for.

They have to outlaw something.Before you can be called a cheat for using it.
whether he used it or not does not matter until they make a rule that you cannot use it.
They have the cart before the horse here,
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Jeez the whole batting tape thing has really blown up today. ICC officials are circling Durham and perhaps KP has something to answer for.
Or perhaps Channel 9 has something to answer for. because their supposed technology (hot spot) didn't show a mark, and the batsman wasn't am Aussie of course, lets all hint there was skullduggery.
While I know it only channel 9 coming out with this shit, I hope Aussie cricketers make everyone aware that is who is saying it, because it sure sounds like sour grapes to me!! I don't believe that all Aussies should have to be made to look like whinging bad sports because of ch 9!!!!
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I think that the simple answer is that we need to go to Aluminium bats.

Where is Dennis Lillie now? Has he still got a warehouse full of these buggers left over from the 80's?:)
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Or perhaps Channel 9 has something to answer for. because their supposed technology (hot spot) didn't show a mark, and the batsman wasn't am Aussie of course, lets all hint there was skullduggery.
While I know it only channel 9 coming out with this shit, I hope Aussie cricketers make everyone aware that is who is saying it, because it sure sounds like sour grapes to me!! I don't believe that all Aussies should have to be made to look like whinging bad sports because of ch 9!!!!



Conflicting reports about this. On the one hand saying the ICC is investigating:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-07/icc-reportedly-probing-hot-spot-evasion-tactics/4872072

and another contradicting it...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-...one-tape-on-bats-but-is/4872758?section=sport
 
D

daz

Guest
I think that the simple answer is that we need to go to Aluminium bats.

Where is Dennis Lillie now? Has he still got a warehouse full of these buggers left over from the 80's?:)

They were all melted down and remade as tin hats. Sales are very strong, especially within the inter-webby and twitteratti communities.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
They were all melted down and remade as tin hats. Sales are very strong, especially within the inter-webby and twitteratti communities.

And Queenslanders. ;)

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I hate autocorrect ...
 

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Peter Fenwicke (45)
34 overs in and 1 wicket. Cook and Trott are starting to get set, we need a wicket soon or this could turn bad real quick.

82-1.
 

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Peter Fenwicke (45)
England 9-238.. Lyon was exceptional. Siddle, Harris and Bird all chipped in with wickets, big congrats to Bird on removing Cook.

Jeez, 238 runs in a day is really slow batting. England need to sort out their run rate and fast. Aussies well and truly on top but if that's what Lyon can do I am concerned about Swann.
 

Fowi

Chris McKivat (8)
Very slow batting from England. The Aussies bowling was very disciplined and the boundaries are long and the outfield slow but they still should have been showing a bit more intent.

At one stage Bairstow hadn't scored for over an hour, then he got 2 off the hips from Lyon and was out LBW 2 balls later.

If the pitch is really difficult to bat on then i am very concerned about Australia's batting. Although im still not convinced by England's bowling, Anderson and Swann are clearly very good, but Broad and Bresnan don't really fuss me, i'd rather have any of the Australian bowlers on tour rather than them.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Need to bat once for about seven sessions, then bowl them out again in five. Trying to score against Swan is going to be murder on day 5

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I hate autocorrect ...
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
With you there, NtA, the Poms'd be drooling over Swann bowling to us on day 5, he'd be about the best tweaker in world cricket ATM. Absolutely essential we bat for two days and end up at least 200 in front. Great effort on day 1 keeping the Poms under 250. Gotta get that last wicket lickety-split tonight.

FU Watson, take wickets or bugger off. One day cricket's the future for you, son.
 
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