2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[Brian Westlake]

As Uncle Lee has pointed out, there is some fairly stiff competition for slots in the back row.

Is Whitely carrying an injury from the tournament? I didn't see his name on the team sheets from the weekends games in Sydney, but he may just be being rested after the tournament.

It could be that the Selectors just reckoned that he didn't fit in with the game plan they had in mind. The last time I saw him play I thought that his body shape and "potential future body shape" when fully grown was more suited to a #6 or #7 role rather than #8. Perhaps others have the same opinion?

He is unquestionably a clever chap and a good leader with a decent rugby brain on him, and I reckon he will make a good go of whatever he chooses to do in the future, whether that is on or off the footy field.

True. I suppose when you put a 7/8/6 on the paddock like Gunn/ Sio/ Dempsey....

 

[Lee Grant]

Kavapalu missed out - Injured, too old, or out of form?
Hodge missed out due to injury.
Whitely missed out - Injured, too old, or out of form?
It helps being an incumbent.

Kavapulu must have been nudged out (if he is not injured) but since he is a pretty good Under 20 prop it is not a bad thing that the selectors think others are better.

Whiteley played in the Canberra tournament; so I'm guessing that he missed out because of the kind of player he is: big-engined and skilful, but lacks the bruiser play of his rival for the spot, Patrick Sio. Bruisers will be needed in NZ.

I'm not sure who else will play no. 8 as a specialist (as opposed to an all-rounder backrower who can play there) as I don't know every player outside of Sydney.

There is a similar problem at blindside flanker—lots of engines and skills in Dempsey, McMahon, Croke and Gunn, for example, but who is going to bash people with ball in hand (their's or the other bloke's hand) or knock people over on the counter ruck?

The Poms, SAffers and others will have these guys.


I see no reason why they can't pick players who haven't played to date: they have a couple of months before they go to NZ and they can always be one of the fellows discarded if they don't come up to the mark physically in the next camp.

Their abilities are well-known and if is good enough for Thompson and Rapp to include them, it is good enough for me.
.

 

[Brian Westlake]

^^^^^
In regards to this @LeeGrant. IMHO do you really think that Mssrs Thompson and Rapp Would look outside the inner sanctum that they have known so well?
Can't see ANY outsider from Qld or NSW coming in to the fold. There may be pressure from the other states as in future endeavours that may drag in a combined states lad. But I think I am fairly solid in the starting back 3.

 

[tranquility]

Gunn is an openside, who has played 6 because he of his size. Definitely a 7 though. A backrow of McMahon, Sio, Gunn with Dempsey the dogsbody will be more than competitive. How did McCalman go at the championships?

 

[Brian Westlake]

From what I have seen from Gunn, his skill set surpasses all the above mentioned. Intelligent football brain as well. Leaves the others in his wake. Nothing wrong with the other guys, it is just Gunn is better.

 

[Forcefield]

Based on last year's U20 form, I'd pick Dempsey over Gunn.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Based on last year's U20 form, I'd pick Dempsey over Gunn.

At 6? yes, because I, like @tranquility realise that Gunn is a 7.

 

[tranquility]

McMahon can play 7 too, so Dempsey might get the 6 jersey and Sean at 7. See how it plays out, either way should not be a weakness.

 

[tranquility]

From what I have seen from Gunn, his skill set surpasses all the above mentioned. Intelligent football brain as well. Leaves the others in his wake. Nothing wrong with the other guys, it is just Gunn is better.

He can certainly play. To be the best player in a premier grade grand final first year out of school is a very rare feat.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Isn't it good to just read positives rather than the slagging?
Was there no room for Sandell this year or is he injured?

 

[Lee Grant]

And still we are not mentioning any bruisers who will play 6, just discussing who is better than whom at 6½ or 7.

Sometimes it is not the elephant in the room that is remarkable, but the lack of rhinos.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Was there no room for Sandell this year or is he injured?

It's his first year out of school so there is nothing untoward in a prop missing out in the Oz U20s as an U19. He made the NSW team, and that was a good effort.

It's early days but I fear that Dell may not be big enough to be a senior prop.

I said last year that he should switch to hooker when he played in Colts this year, and after seeing him in the NSW Colts trial games last month, it confirmed that opinion.

He used to throw to the lineout sometimes for Joeys and was not the worst.
.

 

[Brian Westlake]

And still we are not mentioning any bruisers who will play 6, just discussing who is better than whom at 6½ or 7.

Sometimes it is not the elephant in the room that is remarkable, but the lack of rhinos.
.

@ Lee "Rene Descartes" Grant .....

 

[Lee Grant]

How did McCalman go at the championships?

Didn't see the Canberra games but saw him a lot in the NSW trials.

He's a brave and skilful rooster but very slight: a bit like Dempsey was at school.

Dempsey is 101 kgs now so if Jack Mac can get near to that next year he could be in the team.
.

 

[tranquility]

Sounds a bit like the Messiah up here. Although he was nearly the best 7 at the tournament when he was 17.

 

[tranquility]

It's his first year out of school so there is nothing untoward in a prop missing out in the Oz U20s as an U19. He made the NSW team, and that was a good effort.

It's early days but I fear that Dell may not be big enough to be a senior prop.

I said last year that he should switch to hooker when he played in Colts this year, and after seeing him in the NSW Colts trial games last month, it confirmed that opinion.

He used to throw to the lineout sometimes for Joeys and was not the worst.
.

We just don't produce that style of athlete, and it is not encouraged to be a "bruiser" at an underage level. It is encouraged to be skillful, and industrious with a good temperament. We can't bag the outcome without readdressing the process. Although in saying that I wouldn't want to encourage 13 year old kids to be thugs for the sake of battle hardened senior players. Id rather we play at speed, with skill and take the lumbering blokes from the opposition out of the contest.

 

[Barry Johns]

Now the Extended Playing Squad of 33 has been announced does anyone know how many and in what positions will tour?

 

[Lee Grant]

I think there will be a few players playing where we don't expect them to, the same as every year.

It's not productive to speculate on the exact breakdown now, though it will keep us off the streets.

My guess is that they will wait until the first camp is over before they finalise the squad, and part of that will be how the skills of different players complement each other in the warm-up matches they are having.

We have already seen Randwick flyhalf David Horwitz playing inside centre and Aus Schoolboys fullback Andrew Kellaway playing outside centre for NSW in the National Under 20s—and if folks think there was no national agenda there I think they are mistaken.

Because of the number of games played in a short time in the IRB JWC, this ability to play with different team mates is vital.

There will be a few lads picked in the present squad because they shone in this area.


To digress—later, when the team is playing in the JWC tournament, we may wonder why Bloggs gets picked for a crunch game in front of Nerk because we think Nerk is the better player.

The coaches, who know the strength and weaknesses of the players better than us, look at intangible matters such as the attribute mentioned above.

We will criticise selections, but things will not always be what they seem to us.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

We just don't produce that style of athlete, and it is not encouraged to be a "bruiser" at an underage level. It is encouraged to be skillful, and industrious with a good temperament. We can't bag the outcome without readdressing the process. Although in saying that I wouldn't want to encourage 13 year old kids to be thugs for the sake of battle hardened senior players. Id rather we

It's a part of our rugby upbringing isn't it—an that has a lot to do with the hard, sandy surfaces we play on.

Our rugby does not get the premium from close rugby play here as they do in Europe and more of their young lads evolve into bruisers because of the tight work load they have to do on soggy surfaces.

Nobody in any country encourages their lads to be thugs but they get more hard young forwards, as a percentage, up there, than we do in the SH.

The exception is South Africa who took to the British game like a duck to water, especially the descendants of the Voortrekkers—even today it is like they are still in the laager.

We may like to "play at speed, with skill and take the lumbering blokes from the opposition out of the contest" but this alone won't serve us at the IRB JWC because our opponents will have large fellows who will be bashing us off our ball and theirs unless we can compete physically.

I hope we do have enough brusiers in our team to allow us to play at speed and with skill; if we don't it won't matter how fast we play the game or what skill we have.
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[I like to watch]

Lee, I'm not sure we have the 1/2's to play with a lot of width either.
Time will tell.