2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy

[Hugh Jarse]

Promises, promises - have to be kept.

It will be the Tahs media unit that will give the info.

No promises made here, but no inside information either. It is easier trying to get an honest answer from a politician that it has been to get a list from the usual snouts.

In the absence of any confirmation, here is my version of the suggested NSW team list (which is probably about as accurate as my footytips have been ).

Prop
Cameron ORR, West Harbour
Matt SANDELL, University
Fa'aope SATUI, West Harbour
Vunipola FIFITA, Randwick

Hooker
Folau Fainga'a, University
Ed CRAIG, Eastwood

2nd Row
Joshua ANDERSON, Eastwood
Lachlan CANNELL, Eastwood
Harrison WILLIAMS, University

Loose Forward
Ned Hanigan, Randwick
Jack McCALMAN, University
Sam CROKE, Norths
Hamish DUNBAR, University
Toby RUDULF, Randwick

Half
Rory DAVIS, Souths
Mitchell SHORT, Randwick

Fly Half
Andrew DEEGAN, Randwick
Corey TULLOCH, Norths

Centre
Ellis ABRAHAMS, Manly
Jack REDDEN, University
Henry HUTCHISON, ??

Back Three
Alex NEWSOME, Easts
Christian YASSMIN, University
Harry JONES, Warringah
Andrew KELLAWAY, Randwick * May be on Waratah Duty
Tyson DAVIS, Warringah

Regardless of who is in the final NSW squad when it is published, some very talented athletes will miss out. History tells us that one or two of them will get the injury cover call up.


I don't have any inside information on the Queensland squad, but their talent pool is very deep in this age group, and many of them have NRC and Brisbane First Grade Premier Rugby experience, and some of their graduates of 2014 are first class players with a bright future in front of them.
The Queenslanders should be fearsome competition at National Championships and the player quality in the three Oz squads should make Adrian Thompson very happy, as well as posing him many challenges to narrow the list of candidates down to the required number for the final Squad for Italy.

Is anyone brave enough to have a go at listing their final Qld U20 squad?
Here was the (modified) Team sheet from a recent trial match they had (Thanks to @ HG Nelson)

Prop
Aaron PLEASH
Dylan SIKIMETI
Evander GUTTENBELL
Shambeckler VUI

Hooker
Zach SHANKS
Jayden RODWELL

2nd Row
Adam KORZYK
Phil POTGIETER
Izack RODDA
Angus SCOTT-YOUNG

Loose Forward
Tuiana TUALIMA
Michael GUNN
Lolo FAKAOSILEA
Maclean JONES
Max ALLEN

Half
Angus FOWLER
Isaak FINES

Fly Half
James DALGLEISH
Duncan PAIA'AUA
Pat JAMES

Centre
Izaia PERERSE
Nigel TANUVASA

Back Three
Joey FITTOCK
Conrad QUICK
Mitch THIRD
Adam GAUDER

 

[elementfreak]

Does anyone have any photos from the Southern States tournament? Or know who was the official camera man there on the 3 days?

 

[TOCC]

Is there really a bloke called Folau Fainga'a?
Did he change his name, is this some sort of word associating trick he is attempting?


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[Hans]

No promises made here, but no inside information either. It is easier trying to get an honest answer from a politician that it has been to get a list from the usual snouts.

In the absence of any confirmation, here is my version of the suggested NSW team list (which is probably about as accurate as my footytips have been ).

Prop
Cameron ORR, West Harbour
Matt SANDELL, University
Fa'aope SATUI, West Harbour
Vunipola FIFITA, Randwick

Hooker
Folau Fainga'a, University
Ed CRAIG, Eastwood

2nd Row
Joshua ANDERSON, Eastwood
Lachlan CANNELL, Eastwood
Harrison WILLIAMS, University

Loose Forward
Ned Hanigan, Randwick
Jack McCALMAN, University
Sam CROKE, Norths
Hamish DUNBAR, University
Toby RUDULF, Randwick

Half
Rory DAVIS, Souths
Mitchell SHORT, Randwick

Fly Half
Andrew DEEGAN, Randwick
Corey TULLOCH, Norths

Centre
Ellis ABRAHAMS, Manly
Jack REDDEN, University
Henry HUTCHISON, ??

Back Three
Alex NEWSOME, Easts
Christian YASSMIN, University
Harry JONES, Warringah
Andrew KELLAWAY, Randwick * May be on Waratah Duty
Tyson DAVIS, Warringah

Saw the team play a few times in the trials before Gen Blue Games, from my understanding and names passed on by a few people, Rudolph, Abrahams, Anderson and Craig were all let go/left a while back and haven't played the last few trials or been a part of team rehab. Could change things a bit!!

 

[Hans]

Ok had some time over to look over this thread and found this list posted by the oracle himself LG:

Hookers: Ed Craig, Nick Koutsakis, Folau Fainga’a.
Props: Francis Brown, Vuni Fifita, Cameron Orr, Matt Gibbon, Matt Sandell.
Locks: Lachie Cannell, Nick Kellaway, Harrison Williams, Lukhan Lealaiauloto-Tui, Ned Hanigan, Toby Rudolf.
Back row: Sam Croke, Ollie Kamp, Hamish Dunbar, John Walker*, Jack McCalman, Andrew Vatuvei, Jack Hayson.
Scrumhalves:Mitchell Short, Rory Davis.
Flyhalves: Andrew Deegan, Corey Tulloch.
Centres: Ben Starkey, Ned Yeomans, Jack Redden, Devan Stolz, Henry Hutchinson (added later)
Outside backs: Sam Tabuatamata, Andrew Kellaway, Harry Jones, Alex Newsome, Tyson Davis, Christian Yassmin.
Utility: Ben O’Donnell

Those in italics i understand have left/been dropped prior to this week leaving a squad of 35 (including A Kellaway & H Hutchinson). One would imagine they are now dropping it down to 26, leaving 9 players facing a pretty unhappy phone call.

Who is prepared to play guess master!! According to the list put up by HJ, those in bold are likely gonskis. That is 13 gone from the initial group, so 4 of them likely to receive a lifeline!!

 

[FrontRowFan]

Saw the team play a few times in the trials before Gen Blue Games, from my understanding and names passed on by a few people, Rudolph, Abrahams, Anderson and Craig were all let go/left a while back and haven't played the last few trials or been a part of team rehab. Could change things a bit!!

Interesting info above. However, not all correct. I can tell you that Anderson and Craig were training and playing in the trials right up to and including last Friday's internal trial at TG Milner, based on info from my contacts at EDRUFC. Anderson may have missed the odd hit-out due to injury, but Craig is injury free.

I understand that Joshua Anderson (Ando) was cut on Monday. Folau Fainga'a and Ed Craig have survived as the hookers of choice for the squad. Folau hasn't played in any of the trials due to a lower leg / ankle injury, so perhaps that's who you're referring to in your comment above? He has, however, been training as part of team rehab, and they would be giving a class player like Fainga'a every chance to prove his fitness. Obviously he is improving enough to be back on the park in time for the Canberra games.

 

[Hans]

Interesting info above. However, not all correct. I can tell you that Anderson and Craig were training and playing in the trials right up to and including last Friday's internal trial at TG Milner, based on info from my contacts at EDRUFC. Anderson may have missed the odd hit-out due to injury, but Craig is injury free.

Good thing we have people like you here to correct me. I was doing my best to jot down names of players and must have slipped through a few and not got them right! Unlucky for Anderson, and good news for Craig.

Just looking through the list before, seems to be a big lot of the randwick contingent in trouble here!

 

[Sideline Eye]

Interesting info above. However, not all correct. I can tell you that Anderson and Craig were training and playing in the trials right up to and including last Friday's internal trial at TG Milner, based on info from my contacts at EDRUFC. Anderson may have missed the odd hit-out due to injury, but Craig is injury free.

I understand that Joshua Anderson (Ando) was cut on Monday. Folau Fainga'a and Ed Craig have survived as the hookers of choice for the squad. Folau hasn't played in any of the trials due to a lower leg / ankle injury, so perhaps that's who you're referring to in your comment above? He has, however, been training as part of team rehab, and they would be giving a class player like Fainga'a every chance to prove his fitness. Obviously he is improving enough to be back on the park in time for the Canberra games.

The above is pretty much correct from my understanding. Vuni Fifita also seems to be out, along with Andrew Vatuvei. I think Francis Brown has retained a position.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Hans, another way of looking at is this way: The Wicks are to be congratulated for getting so many into the extended squad, as fits the 2014 Colts1 Premiers, and it augurs well for their quest for back to back titles. They have come a long way since the Corporation put 100 points on them in a final in 2013, especially considering that many of those who played in the GF last year also suffered the ignominy of the 100+ point thrashing the year previously.

Even though some of the Wicks contingent may have been cut, I reckon that there are at least 4 certainties from the Wicks: Kellaway, Hanigan, Deegan, and Short and the first 3 would be among the first pencilled in for Gold Jumpers. That is not a bad effort.

@Sideline Eye, and his Woodies connections are usually on the money when it comes to selections, so it looks like the first chinks in my strawman squad above have been exposed. Like I said, no inside knowledge and a bad record at footytipping!

 

[Hans]

@Hans, another way of looking at is this way: The Wicks are to be congratulated for getting so many into the extended squad, as fits the 2014 Colts1 Premiers, and it augurs well for their quest for back to back titles. They have come a long way since the Corporation put 100 points on them in a final in 2013, especially considering that many of those who played in the GF last year also suffered the ignominy of the 100+ point thrashing the year previously.

Even though some of the Wicks contingent may have been cut, I reckon that there are at least 4 certainties from the Wicks: Kellaway, Hanigan, Deegan, and Short and the first 3 would be among the first pencilled in for Gold Jumpers. That is not a bad effort.

I think you may well be right on that front, and it certainly bodes well for the Wicks they had so many in the mix in the first place.

 

[I like to watch]

Even though some of the Wicks contingent may have been cut, I reckon that there are at least 4 certainties from the Wicks: Kellaway, Hanigan, Deegan, and Short and the first 3 would be among the first pencilled in for Gold Jumpers. That is not a bad effort.

All of the first 3 that you highlight were Oz Schoolboys,none of them were Wicks jnrs.
Monopolising Schoolboys stars takes no skill.
If they had a development program they had confidence in,they would develop whoever turned up,and would not need to give out 50 odd scholarships or whatever the number is.

 

[TOCC]

All of the first 3 that you highlight were Oz Schoolboys,none of them were Wicks jnrs.
Monopolising Schoolboys stars takes no skill.
If they had a development program they had confidence in,they would develop whoever turned up,and would not need to give out 50 odd scholarships or whatever the number is.

Providing a program which attracts the best talent does take skill and good management though..


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[Hans]

All of the first 3 that you highlight were Oz Schoolboys,none of them were Wicks jnrs.
Monopolising Schoolboys stars takes no skill.
If they had a development program they had confidence in,they would develop whoever turned up,and would not need to give out 50 odd scholarships or whatever the number is.

In addition, who did the development work with these kids. I wouldn't count playing a state champs or 2 for a zone as much development considering it is about 5 weeks of the year if that. For me, the ability to pull together the program and keep big playing groups together is a massive achievement, and something Randwick should be crowing about big time. No different to the way Uni changed the rugby landscape through the SS, the hatred is borne of jealousy at their unrivaled success!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Probably for the Colts thread but you are right about none of them being former Wicks juniors, but by attracting one of those listed above, the wicks have apparently missed out on one of their "home grown" Aust Schoolboys who has apparently gone to the Corporation, possibly on the basis that they saw themselves as always playing behind the fellow Schoolboy recruited by the Wicks the year previously. In a touch of the ironic, both lads attended the same high school, and IIRC they did not play a lot of junior club rugby from Under 14 onwards.

If the wicks do manage to get the targeted 50 scholarships going in 2015, one hopes that the majority of them go to former juniors or current residents of the Randwick council area. The competition for a place in the starting roster in Colts 1 (or 1st Grade) can be a powerful recruitment tool for clubs to exploit and target aspirational kids who may be smart enough to see the logjam of talent building up in front of them at the Glamour club. I suspect that some fringe pro players have have used similar reasoning (in part) before they take off to play rugby in the Northern Hemisphere, albeit they are looking at a log jam of talent ahead of them across the Australian pro Franchises, rather than at their club level.

It does beg the question how much does a district club actually "invest" in the development of a kid that last played for them in the Under 13s or Under 14s in many cases (if they go to one of Sydney's big rugby schools).

If a kid played under 6 - Under 12 with the Mosman club because they lived in that area, including a year or two of reps with the Shoremen, attended Newington College (in either Uni or Pirates footprint) making GPS II and Combined States from shadow NSW, and then attends Macquarie University (Woodies or Gordon footprint) to do a degree in science, who has first call on their loyalty come colts registration.

It is a bit different to a kid from Cherrybrook who has played all their juniors with Dural from Under 6 - Under 18 while attending Dural Primary and Dural Boys High School (Hypothetical) and making the Eastwood Rep team for Junior State champs each year from U10-U17's, completes a degree in Biology at UWS Hawkesbury. Woodies would rightly feel a little dudded if that same lad played their colts rugby with another club.

 

[I like to watch]

In addition, who did the development work with these kids. I wouldn't count playing a state champs or 2 for a zone as much development considering it is about 5 weeks of the year if that. For me, the ability to pull together the program and keep big playing groups together is a massive achievement, and something Randwick should be crowing about big time. No different to the way Uni changed the rugby landscape through the SS, the hatred is borne of jealousy at their unrivaled success!

I wasn't suggesting othe SS clubs deserved the kudos for developing these stars,just that Big Arse was was off target in giving Randwick the credit.
I see no merit in recruiting to a level that sees more imports registered than are permitted on the field at one time.
Either is weakening the standard of the comp by poaching the better players that would normally register with weaker clubs without financial incentives.

If the players are all joining purely for the program,why do the wicks offer any financial incentives to colts at all?
Surely the club would be better served to put these resources into their grade players?
We all know the answer to that,some are just unwilling to accept it.

 

[Lee Grant]

According to the list put up by HJ, those in bold are likely gonskis.

Some of those bolded players are in.

Commenting on some of the comments in the last few days without giving a clue to what I have heard about who is in the squad, or rather, not in.

- Ed Craig has been involved the whole time including last Friday in the hit-out - and before against ACT U20s.

- Folau Fainga'a has been injured for a while but is a priority player and will be given every chance to prove his fitness. (No secret - I've mentioned this before).

- John Walker was injured yonks ago and replaced by Jack Hayson in the squad.

- Toby Rudolf was injured a while back and Jack Bodwitch brought in - not exactly like for like, more about numbers. Ned Yeomans was injured against NSW Country a month ago. Both were at school last year and neither are priority players

- Junior Satiu / Ellis Abrahams - haven't seen them, but there was a big cast of players in December before they made the cut for January; so I could have missed them.

- If the Waratahs have injuries and Andrew Kellaway has to stand by, he could miss the nationals, but every effort will be made to have him in the first camp afterwards (when they play the Oceania tournament) just as Sean McMahon was brought in last year.
.

 

[Tah and feathered]

All of the first 3 that you highlight were Oz Schoolboys,none of them were Wicks jnrs.
Monopolising Schoolboys stars takes no skill.
If they had a development program they had confidence in,they would develop whoever turned up,and would not need to give out 50 odd scholarships or whatever the number is.

There is a lot of talk, mostly from Randwick about there program at Colts
Randwick beat Souths by 2 points in the semi final
Randwick had 39 points on the field Souths had 23.
Did randwick win through better training etc or by sheer weight of player abilty trained into the players of years in top level GPS systems and rep footy systems
If Randwick have such faith in there program and players and coaches why are they still contacting and chasing players in the NSW 20s squad.
I have heard they have recruited Lukhan from Souths and are having a red hot crack at Matt Gibbon and also a few of the other players.
I think all clubs run very good colts programs and you can see this each weekend at the colts matches. clubs are now awake to the need for a strong Colts group which will make the SS stronger.

 

[Hans]

There is a lot of talk, mostly from Randwick about there program at Colts
Randwick beat Souths by 2 points in the semi final
Randwick had 39 points on the field Souths had 23.
Did randwick win through better training etc or by sheer weight of player abilty trained into the players of years in top level GPS systems and rep footy systems
If Randwick have such faith in there program and players and coaches why are they still contacting and chasing players in the NSW 20s squad.
I have heard they have recruited Lukhan from Souths and are having a red hot crack at Matt Gibbon and also a few of the other players.
I think all clubs run very good colts programs and you can see this each weekend at the colts matches. clubs are now awake to the need for a strong Colts group which will make the SS stronger.

Without wanting to defend Randwick or appear that way, credit has to be paid to them for their approach to tackling the university model. Due to the way Uni have operated and changed the landscape, the current options are to play at their level or conceded defeat. Unless there is some sort of serious points cap or draft, neither of which are easily enforceable, it is a double edged sword. Recruit and succeed, get slammed by the masses, do nothing and get slammed by uni!

I know there are some exceptions, however i don't have to much of an issue with any of the Randwick tactics, moreover i applaud them for their approach in trying actively to foster players through to senior ranks.

Any argument on the "we developed player 'X', so we should have first crack" is garbage. I would guess that in 90% of cases, the senior clubs have played almost no part in the development of the player, other then possibly some state champs appearances as a junior, most of the development occurring here is from the junior club ranks anyway. As HJ mentioned, the few exceptions are likely those of a player such as Ed Craig, who has been in the Eastwood system, and they can lay an actual claim to having "developed' him as well as some similar stories off the beaches.

 

[rugby roo]

Which Club or Zone do you belong to or should be loyal to??? As long as all good players and above par players are getting a run to develop and expose their skills to the people that matter it shouldnt matter.I have seen players whom most have not seen or heard of until they are say 17 join any club that they think will suit them for lots of reasons,particularly country kids.
The structure and development from there is the most important for player and ARU.
One might have recruited a very select group of Colts but invariably they "scatter" and are subject to further recruiting at a higher level as they mature, see Melbourne Rebels.
I dont see a big problem with a "loaded " colts squad because it doesnt ladt long.

 

[Lee Grant]

This thread is supposed to be on the 2015 World Rugby U20 tournament and the lead-up to it, including the Aussie U20 Championships and the selection of the teams for it.

In the manner of rugby forums since the internet began we have digressed. This thread seems to have morphed into a discussion about Sydney Colts.

There is a suitable thread for that topic, but it is not this one.

It may seem a bit rich for yours truly to chastise folks for digressing, but please get back on track.

Thank you.
.