2016 Schools rowing

[behindtheshed]

Joeys and Scots are training together. I saw two eights side by side earlier this morning does anyone else have any knowledge of this? Would be extremely surprised if this was the case.

Really? They must have been going past SO FAST that you couldn't take a picture of them!!! Like Big Foot. Look, we all enjoy the goss and the blind items, not to mention the anonymity of the nom-de-plume, but lately this thread seems to have attracted a greater array of BS artists and stirrers. Agree with fpiglet: either you saw them or you didn't, but please give up the tedious "I saw them, yes really I did.....was that what I saw??? Can someone tell me what I saw????" I mean, we all saw something nasty in the woodshed, but did it see you?

 

[RowingChat]

Joeys and Scots are training together. I saw two eights side by side earlier this morning does anyone else have any knowledge of this? Would be extremely surprised if this was the case.

Sorry mate, not sure who or what your sources are, but that's not true

 

[LuvToRo]

Joeys and Scots are training together. I saw two eights side by side earlier this morning does anyone else have any knowledge of this? Would be extremely surprised if this was the case.

There is no way in this world that two schools would train together probably some sort of composite crew or something.

 

[behindtheshed]

Joeys have started selecting their first 8. Seats have been handed out and they have started training! Get ready for a mighty season!

I have it on good authority that crew selection is beginning this week, at Joeys and at least two other schools to my knowledge. Those boys who had seats "handed out" in mid-August must be totes devo, MKBoating.

 

[deez ebola nuts]

I believe Newington had a 2.5km erg test this morning, very obscure erg distance, normally they would be doing a 5km or 6km.
Thoughts??

 

[Major Rennie]

As per the schools weekly newsletter, Shore's rowing programme starts this week. After the rugby season I imagine the boys are looking to restore some pride.
All the schools start this week (am assuming) which means no unfair advantages.
Looking forward to seeing the lineups....

MR

 

[rowbuddy]

A comment on equipment - although for quite some time GPS schools have had the best equipment, it was, for quite a while, that they all had very similar equipment. E.g. the podium in 2013 had 3 Wintech boats, 2 in 2014, and 1 in 2015. In 2014 there were only 3 or 4 different brands across the competition, less in the fours. But this year, if I am correct, there will be 5 or 6, with many schools looking for more expensive foreign boats (ignatius with empacher, scots with felippi, shore with hudson, and Joeys with an NZ brand).
Point being, competition is changing, becoming more elite. This season is going to be very competitive to say the least.

Can someone explain to me why a proud Australian GPS school would row a NZ brand? Go to the Maadi Cup and see how many Sykes you find on the water. I guess real overseas brands seem to be OK

 

[rowbuddy]

I believe Newington had a 2.5km erg test this morning, very obscure erg distance, normally they would be doing a 5km or 6km.
Thoughts??

The unofficial CII world champs aka CRASH Bs in Boston used to be over 2500m until 1996. The reason for the odd distance was that the first erg had a bike computer and the race distance was set at five miles, which roughly equaled 2500m. Later with the current machines and monitors they moved to 2k. I doubt the Newington ergs have anything to do with it. If you row the test rate restricted it gives an early indication of aerobic capability. 5 or 6k would do the same trick, but this might be easier and accomplishes the same result. If rowed at open rate it is indeed similar to a 2k test and wouldn’t make physiological sense at this time of the year other than sorting the kids out.

 

[rowbuddy]

I don't think that pressure gates are overboard. They are an extremely good investment. It means you will have the absolute strongest crew available to you and will reduce the amount of time it takes to select. In my opinion well played Shore!

I think a force telemetry system is overkill for school level crews and doesn’t show who the strongest crew is.
Usually those systems measure gate forces as supposed to handle force. The actual force readings are highly inaccurate because the pressure gate is fixed relative to the boat and the pin sensor measures force in the reference frame of the boat. Usually, it measures only parallel to the boat axis component. Means the force are dependent on catch and finish angles as well as blade depth. Readings are also affected by axial gate forces at catch and finish. The handle force vs stretcher force would be the solution, but those systems are the real overkill price and handling skill wise. The estimated error or the rower’s power calculation is 10% in sculling and up to 20% in sweep rowing.
Now apply 20% to any 2k erg score and you get an idea how people would react if this is used as selection criteria.

It can be used to sync angles and power profiles across the crew as a coaching tool. I have seen school crews in Melb and WA using the Peach Systems in their case. The basic version is 12k GBP and for the value still an overkill. AIS and State Institutes are employing people to use these systems and interpret the right results. In the hands of school coaches it’s nothing more than a super excessive gadget with no additional value what those school coaches are already capable of.

 

[SBrow]

Can someone explain to me why a proud Australian GPS school would row a NZ brand? Go to the Maadi Cup and see how many Sykes you find on the water. I guess real overseas brands seem to be OK

Maybe because national pride has no influence on making a boat go fast (at least not at a schoolboy level)

 

[LuvToRo]

I think a force telemetry system is overkill for school level crews and doesn’t show who the strongest crew is.
Usually those systems measure gate forces as supposed to handle force. The actual force readings are highly inaccurate because the pressure gate is fixed relative to the boat and the pin sensor measures force in the reference frame of the boat. Usually, it measures only parallel to the boat axis component. Means the force are dependent on catch and finish angles as well as blade depth. Readings are also affected by axial gate forces at catch and finish. The handle force vs stretcher force would be the solution, but those systems are the real overkill price and handling skill wise. The estimated error or the rower’s power calculation is 10% in sculling and up to 20% in sweep rowing.
Now apply 20% to any 2k erg score and you get an idea how people would react if this is used as selection criteria.

It can be used to sync angles and power profiles across the crew as a coaching tool. I have seen school crews in Melb and WA using the Peach Systems in their case. The basic version is 12k GBP and for the value still an overkill. AIS and State Institutes are employing people to use these systems and interpret the right results. In the hands of school coaches it’s nothing more than a super excessive gadget with no additional value what those school coaches are already capable of.

I'm not sure why you think pressure gates are ineffective when the AIS uses them and they seem to get things right. However in the case of Scots then it would be useless because they buy every piece of equipment they can get their hands on and it doesn't really make a difference.

 

[notthefbi]

I believe Newington had a 2.5km erg test this morning, very obscure erg distance, normally they would be doing a 5km or 6km.
Thoughts??

I don't know what sources you have mate, but if you are in a position that allows you to have access to schools rowing tests, keep it to yourself. People don't need to be encouraged to disclose private information.
Best to keep all information on this thread to publicly accessable information.

 

[LuvToRo]

Maybe because national pride has no influence on making a boat go fast (at least not at a schoolboy level)

Totally agree. Where a boat is made has no influence over how the the crew performs. I also have my doubts that any GPS school cares about National pride. Boat makers such as Sykes that are made in Australia are not the same quality of say a Hudson, Fillipi or an Empacher. I don't blame schools for buying overseas boat making companies.

 

[behindtheshed]

The unofficial CII world champs aka CRASH Bs in Boston used to be over 2500m until 1996. The reason for the odd distance was that the first erg had a bike computer and the race distance was set at five miles, which roughly equaled 2500m. Later with the current machines and monitors they moved to 2k. I doubt the Newington ergs have anything to do with it. If you row the test rate restricted it gives an early indication of aerobic capability. 5 or 6k would do the same trick, but this might be easier and accomplishes the same result. If rowed at open rate it is indeed similar to a 2k test and wouldn’t make physiological sense at this time of the year other than sorting the kids out.

one mile = 1600m. I don't see how 2500m is five miles?

 

[rowbuddy]

one mile = 1600m. I don't see how 2500m is five miles?

I should have said 'miles' in exclamation marks. It was set as the race duration. The first model had a bike computer which measured the distance traveled by the flywheel. With some weird formula they converted the flywheel distance to on water distance as 1 mile of flywheel to 500m on water.

 

[rowbuddy]

I'm not sure why you think pressure gates are ineffective when the AIS uses them and they seem to get things right. However in the case of Scots then it would be useless because they buy every piece of equipment they can get their hands on and it doesn't really make a difference.

Yes, the AIS and many State Institutes are using them as one bio mech tool. They are still valid to get angles right and some sort of profile. Many shy away from handle forces including the AIS, because it is much more effort. Every single oar needs a force pick up, separate calibration etc...If they go through the effort it is actually worthwhile. But again, any of those tools don't do more on a school level what most top coaches see already. I agree that some schools would buy any nuclear weapon to crack a wall nut

 

[deez ebola nuts]

I have a variety of very reliable sources re. shore pressure gates. Which in my opinion is overboard for a school boy rowing crew! Never the less if that is what they wish to do, good luck!
As for Joeys obviously LBA is affiliated with the school and something I said must have been true for that reaction, I do apologise for my careless language! But seriously just chill! And I do have sources saying the first eight coach is already telling people seats in the 8!

What are the advantages of pressure gates?

 

[SBrow]

Im gonna have a go at a predicted Newington 1st VIII:

Who are you picking for cox??

 

[deez ebola nuts]

I dont see the problem in naming boys, the GPS rugby thread constantly has names shown everywhere

 

[cyclopath]

Don't name names, because it always ends up being pejorative. Don't know what that means? Look it up. Discuss crews in general by all means, but not individuals.
And don't bother trying to argue the point with me. Them's the rules.