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2017 Schools Rowing

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by Lindommer, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. IV The Win Peter Burge (5)

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    Sounds like something my old buddy SIRCWATCH would say. no I don't think Shore will be strong next year simply based off of the junior eight. Personally I think Kings struggles in the GPS crews despite often having strong junior eights in the past. With new coaches I think that Scots and Joeys should hit their stride in 2018, and a stronger junior eight from Riverview could lead to a stronger first eight performance throughout the season instead of just at HOTR.

    Just my two cents
    bigmac likes this.
  2. SIRCWATCH Frank Nicholson (4)

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    I agree with Chris F Shore will dominate in both the first and second VIII for the third year running, however my confidence in the fours is limited with the lack of JRN VIII depth as IV the win pointed out. I also agree Kings have a useless opens program and are lacking the tools to produce a remotely sound crew. I agree with the fact riverview will be strong. However i can't see scots having a good year (as it has been the past 40+years). Shore 1st Iv beat what i believe was their top 4 rowers on the weekend which says a lot about the boat sheds culture and state its in at the moment so I'll have to disagree with you their IV The Win. Joeys Jrn VIII rowed a slow time in the nationals final on the weekend combined with an embarrassing 1st VIII this year producing a time not even competitive in the JRN VIIIS race has me suggesting they won't be one to watch.

    My tip stands for the 1st VIII
    1st Shore
    2nd Riverview
    3rd Kings, Joeys
    The rest is anyones guess however newington could be a dark horse with all their "tactics" (cheating) thats takes place in the shed just taken over by the Kinross Wolliroi former head of rowing.
  3. formerflanker Dick Tooth (41)

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    Your assertion which follows is best left off this site IMHO.
  4. IV The Win Peter Burge (5)

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    My opinion on scots was solely based on the few 1st VIII races before HOTR (no clue what happened on the day from what looked like a promising chance for an upset). In general it looks as if the junior eights were slower in comparison to the last two seasons, but they were much closer than they had been in the past, which leads to my HOTR predictions:

    1.Riverview (solely based off HOTR performance, likely they could continue that trend)
    2. Shore (As you can tell I'm not the greatest fan of the Shorefest that's been sweeping across the GPS, but with the year 13 factor a distant figure in the past and a slower junior eight than usually comes out of the shed, this could easily be another 2015)
    3. Scots/Joeys (I agree with SIRCWATCH that the St Joseph's shed was not on the firmest footing following HOTR, but for both of these sheds, some new leadership could have a massive impact on their quality and placings)

    The rest for me is simply a shot in the dark, with there being little coming out of any of the other sheds that will convince me there will be any change from the previous years. Personally, I think that the next year will be a slow one for the GPS, and with Scotch having such a strong junior and senior eight, I can't see much hope for State and Nationals from where I'm standing.

    Just my two cents
  5. GentlyDownTheStream Bob McCowan (2)

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    Long time forum lurker here coming out of the shadows to speak for someone who has been on the receiving end of a lot of vitriol from certain members of this forum. Looking at you IV the Win and SBrow (to a lesser extent).

    Those of you with a keen eye will know that the so-called 'year 13 factor' - often blamed for the success of recent Shore crews - is the same age as all the other year 12 boys he raced against. This fact is clearly shown on the regattacentral website - hover your mouse over the Shore stroke on this page: https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/results2/eventResults.jsp?job_id=4511&event_id=97

    So, contrary to the deluded views of certain members of this forum, this boy has no advantage in terms of age over the other schools. His only advantage was more hard work crammed into the same number of years. Yes, the Shore boy may have had more senior rowing experience than his peers, but this sort of experience is available to any keen rower at local rowing clubs.

    In fact, the 2015 Scotch crew, which had an unfortunate equipment malfunction, actually did have a 19 year old in their crew and IV the Win didn't kick up a fuss about him. So I ask you to ditch your bias and look at the available facts, especially when making claims about people in forums where they can't speak for themselves.

    Please excuse my ranting. In response to SBrow - yes this was very impressive. And not to forget that the crew was stroked by last year's stern pair from Joey's (and Major Rennie winners from 2015 I believe).

    P.S. are the moderators okay with us naming these ex-GPS rowers?
    Year13Factor likes this.
  6. SIRCWATCH Frank Nicholson (4)

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    I believe IV The Win has a large chip on his shoulder about this year 13 factor as he believes the year 13 factor took away from his chance at success at HOTR 2016. However if he knew a thing or two about winning perhaps he would know that it takes more than 1 to tango. In fact it takes 9 for a boat to get up and running and dominating competition and thats what the 2016 crew did. Sure they had a rower who rowed 3 years in the VIII (which riverview had this year i might add and you didn't see them win a race or anyone kicking up a fuss?!!). But it was the 4 returning rowers as well as the cox and a strong JRN VIII and the loss to joeys previously that probably sent a firecracker up their arses to make them the champion crew they were.

    Im sure its always going to hurt not knowing what the RENNIE feels like but hey theres always google images?
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  7. GentlyDownTheStream Bob McCowan (2)

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    Apologies SBrow, I've misinterpreted your intentions. Regardless, continuous singling-out of individuals, be it in a negative, sarcastic or praising manner, should be left off the forum for the sake of the boy in question.

    I agree with your reply and Sircwatch's (not so eloquent) comment that the crew matters more than the individual.
  8. IV The Win Peter Burge (5)

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    All this fuss over little old me. I wasn't actually on this forum back in 2015 so I didn't know that Scotch did that so thank you for the information.

    I'd also like to point out that despite the same level in success from my chosen school in the past two seasons, it was clear that Shore was going to dominate 2016 from the first race so I didn't lose much sleep on an upset. My gripes are not on the year 13 factor as a principle, frankly having promising rowers launched into GPS crews when they are at a junior level or having someone complete pathways to go row at a national level shows future potential and an investment in the boy.

    However the main reason that I "constantly" bring up the year 13 factor in terms of Shore is a recognition that although not in the first year, but in the second and third they could easily be considered the best rower in the GPS (I'll debate the topic with anyone who contests it). I do agree that in rowing it takes 8 and a half people to make it really move, there are some individuals that can have a massive impact:

    Firstly the stroke of the 2016 crew took over the year 13 factor's legacy as the (debatably again) best rower in the GPS, which would have had a massive impact on the 2016 crew without him. One of the defining characteristics of the 2016 crew was that they had noticible length in the middle of the boat, despite the shorter stature of the bow pair from 2015. My point is that there are other factors that lead to the success of the 2016 crew, and without the year 13 factor they could have just been another short boat that rates 40 down the course and still wins.

    Also just to (I'm sure) start another argument with my pal SIRCWATCH, but doesn't 1 faster time in a cross tail and another in a roaring head (practically discounted) mean that the year 13 factor had less of an impact that I so suggest? Just thought I'd do some proper rebutting for you since all you can do is bring up that you won the Rennie once.

    Just my two cents
  9. SIRCWATCH Frank Nicholson (4)

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    How are you making your judgment upon the GPS best rower? Are you taking this data from GPS sculling? And what legacy did the 2016 stroke bring to the crew this year that the other returning rowers couldn't have added? And with reference to the last paragraph I'm not sure i understand what you are trying to say as it doesn't make sense to me perhaps someone could shed light on it? And with reference to the Rennie who says i have ever won it or if not perhaps i have won it multiple times?
  10. IV The Win Peter Burge (5)

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    Yes, they both won GPS sculling, by some margin as well. That's the legacy I refer to
  11. GentlyDownTheStream Bob McCowan (2)

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    Thanks for your clarification, my post was only to demonstrate that this rower was not an unfair advantage to Shore's crew last year, as some of your comments do suggest.

    I'll add to your list of standout individuals the Newington boys who won the U19 double, four and quad on the weekend. I'm left wondering why this talent wasn't reflected in their VIII this year.

    You bring up an interesting question which we ought to consider (since GPS racing is over), that of whether or not the 2017 Shore crew was better than the 2016 crew. My sense is that the 2017 crew was longer overall while the 2016 crew was stronger, but really only had length in the middle of the boat. The slow start on Sunday supports this assessment. While one of the many golden rules of rowing is to not compare times across races, I would say that this year's crew was slightly slower. The 2016 crew rowed a 5:48 in a light cross tail (my take on the RNSW drone footage), while the 2017 crew did a 5:46 in what I assume was a strong tail (given the times across the board). I think had the 2016 Shore crew faced Scotch last weekend, the race would have been one for the ages.

    What does everybody think about this question?

    -GDTS
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  12. behindtheshed Billy Sheehan (19)

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    oh for God's sake! Get over the Year 13 factor!

    Age spread in any school year group will be up to 18 months.

    Some rowers will be academic achievers. Others will have no other skill but rowing.

    Some will be only 16 at HOTR. Others will be close to 19.

    Last time I looked, it was an eights race, not a single. The age of one crew member does not determine the result.
    Year13Factor, SBrow and Chris F like this.
  13. Chris F Bob McCowan (2)

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    I couldn't agree more. Great point.
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  14. getaroundit Frank Row (1)

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    GPS rowing is a dynamic thing, which is hard to predict 2 weeks out, let alone a whole year- Wouldn't have given a hope to view at head of the river, after coming 7th of 8 in the heats at Gold Cup two weeks before, after being put in a group that was easily beatable (Scots, Joeys and High, if I remember correctly), Kings on the other hand were about 2.5 seconds from winning that day, then struggled to hold off Grammar at SIRC.

    That being said, my predictions are

    1. Ignatius- and impressive year 10 1st VIII and consistent results are seeing confidence build throughout rowing in general for the view boys. A season that sees more consistent improvement I believe will give the boys those few seconds that they need to bring home the Rennie

    2. Shore- in spite of results from year tens that left a little to be desired, Shore has the will to pull off strong results. 3 returning members from last year, and many from the highly successful seconds, I think they'll be able to overcome the seeming lack of depth from year tens

    3. Scots- probably pretty annoyed at this year's result (and making idiots of themselves with that video), but with the funds and depth in year 11s and 10s to get a solid result. #trusttheprocess

    From there it's anyone's race, I believe.
    St Joseph's will come in strong without doubt- Not exactly sure what happened midway through the second half of the season, but hopefully that won't happen again. With the vast majority of the 1sts being boys in the HSC year, they'll beyond doubt be looking for promise in year 10 and 11

    I have the belief that Sydney Boys High may break a losing streak, after having a pretty solid race to about the 1500m- being ahead of Grammar and Kings for most of it. By the looks of it 5 rowers returning from the VIII may place them in position to improve on this.

    Newington are hard to pick- If you'd think that a school full of stronger rugby boys would be able to get a boat moving, you'd be right in logic, wrong in practice.

    Kings- an inconsistent season disappointed the boys. After promising results in the Gold Cup, Sydney Regattan and Sydney Grammar Regatta, you'd think they'd have been well in contention for a podium finish. If the rough edges can be sanded off the program, who knows what's possible. In spite of only 2 returning members of the firsts, the win in the year 10 first VIII will serve as an inspiration to the whole shed

    Grammar- I was surprised by these guys too- after being 10 seconds off Kings and Newington at SRC regatta just 3 weeks from the big day, I figured it'd be a race between the GPS rugby schools, and the GPS 3rd grade rugby schools- Grammar showed me wrong, in spite of the headwind battering their light crew they were within a length of Kings and New. Had conditions been different, maybe they could've been faster. Still with only 2 returning rowers from the firsts (although 8 from the seconds) it may be hard to keep moving up.

    TAS- (side note), rumour has it that TAS may be entering a VIII next year, after being very competitive in the IVs, it's a step up, but may eventually need to be made. They occasionally train in VIIIs, as a photo on their website suggests (it's uploaded as the file). It'd be nice to see all 9 GPS schools competing in one first grade event

    Attached Files:

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  15. behindtheshed Billy Sheehan (19)

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    All interesting points.

    I personally don't think you can judge any crew by their performance at Gold Cup - it's a bit like guessing who will win gold in the 100m backstroke based on their performance in UFC.

    I'd say Scots is haunted by such a long list of embarrassments that the video barely rates a mention.

    Regarding TAS, I hope they do get an VIII up. And a little footnote in rowing history, TAS entered a girls' crew for the first time at HOTR. Not bad a for a school which only became fully co-ed in 2016.
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  16. bigmac Billy Sheehan (19)

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    Shore will be strong even if a little down on previous years. The systems in place will always put them in good stead

    Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
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  17. Lindommer Andrew Slack (58)

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    HotRs and Nationals are done and dusted, please post all rowing matters over on the 2018 thread.
    Jock Mccracker likes this.
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