AIC Rugby 2019

[D'Lite Full]

All parties have known for months. The QSS should have maintained their traditional pathway or the AIC should have agreed to start the comp this weekend, have a bye next weekend and then carry on. It's a dog's breakfast.

But RA redirected funding to the State Academies so the QSS has gone rogue and decided to change their pathway. AIC and GPS (with exceptions) have not communicated this well to parents or to boys. QSS communication has been confusing.

Unfortunately, with all respect to those trialling at Sunnybank, the QLD Schoolboys teams will be weakened as a result. The 2019 selections will be questioned, tainted or outright dismissed.

Not a level playing field and not a good way to start the season.

Some will say that the AIC has already made up its mind to change to Rugby League. Given the cultural atrocities in that sport are now verging on replicating the NFL, that is a bad move. Who wants to be, in any good conscious, associated with a sport that has such a criminal element that it can only attract gambling and alcohol companies as major corporate sponsors?

QLD Rugby community needs to step up to the plate.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

D’lite

If it makes you feel any better GPS schools told their students the Schoolboys pathway was not something they were supporting and that Reds U18 was the preferred pathway. They actively went out of their way to turn their back on the tradition and the benefits that extend way beyond Rugby in terms of the educational and personal development benefits that many young men have had the privilege of experiencing prior to this change

Meanwhile some of these schools let their league aligned charges run off and play Mal Meninga Cup during preseason and holiday camps when you would suppose that this is the time for Squads to come together which was presumably the reason why boys who otherwise would have pursued a well regarded and traditional Schoolboy Rugby pathway were denied the opportunity

So yes , the stain of League is not only alive and well in the GPS system as well but also enjoying the sunny side of the coin in a major double standard that exists all of a sudden. And the Educators are asleep at the wheel.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

I don’t believe QSS has gone rogue at all . I reckon they have done the absolute best they can with the hand they have been dealt. All they have done from October last year is expand their State Championship model in Opens to align it to U12 and U15 programs. The reality was that all schools didn’t really have a clear direction of which way was up through Term 4 last year and how they would respond. Somewhere over the Summer and into the very early part of Term 1 a collective “understanding” was reached amongst GPS Heads. Terrace ultimately broke ranks as they were in leadership flux at the top of their program and I understand the outgoing guy who had the internal authority to green light it was a supporter anyway . More power to him.

As it relates to Rugby, QSS were and are downstream from the ASRU (Australian Schoolboys)who can fund themselves independently from RA and will now do so in full. So to some degree the perceived inaction from QSS had to take into account what would be happening in other States and Territories and in the combined picture how the ASRU offering was going to work.

As has been identified for many years the forthcoming State Championships, historically , has really been to select the CSS Team and there has been seperate GPS and AIC representation , from which , QLD Schoolboys were selected. This selection process always happened at the end of the AIC season and for the last trial round at the end of Term 2 at GPS Schools. The National Schoolboy Championships would then occur in the last week of the July holidays - as they are this year , and the only disruption to AIC Students would be possibly to a family holiday . For GPS Students they would miss whatever Squad based training or Camp that might have been planned for that last week of holidays and the last trial on the Saturday before school starts back . So no disruption for AIC and some minor disruption for GPS who historically have taken it on board .

This year there was a very minor disruption to AIC with the Week 2 and Round 1 thing that every School navigated around with the exception of one for whatever the reason of their inflexibility to the detriment of opportunity for its Open Rugby students. The other AIC schools have adapted wonderfully well and deserve the utmost recognition for being flexible and doing right by their Rugby students. Insofar as GPS is concerned with the exception of Terrace they couldn’t have screwed it up anymore if they tried - which they did try but it was just in a spoiling direction.

I spoke with senior QSS and ASRU administrators throughout this process as it played through and the level of arrogance by those that blew it off and those that stood to gain is breathtaking. Especially when you consider the overall state of Rugby in this Country and the historical and current level of talent supply coming out of QLD - and the net effect here is :

1. Opportunity participation has been reduced

2. The Educational proposition has been reduced

3. There was no meaningful impact to the AIC season beyond a historical mean

4. There was no additional impact to the GPS season beyond what historically had occurred with player representation upstream. There are no scheduled trial games in next weekend’s State Championships . And I reiterate that at some points in the GPS System Mal Meninga Cup participants have been allowed to come and go as they please

Nomad, what would you propose the QSS do when you identify it is THE ONLY selection pathway , I might add, as it is in U12 and U15 but where most schools can adapt and get it together . As has been pointed out the vast majority of the AIC Schools got their act together - and Terrace did because of the attitude of their prior bloke in the Chair who got over the collective hubris and decided it was a good opportunity for the boys. In the absence of GPS and AIC , together , abandoning their traditional match up that QSS convened - what would you have the QSS have done ? In a move the Mountain to Mohamed type exercise I assume you would expect them to attend all AIC games and select AIC boys at the end of the season , and then attend , the first 2 or 3 GPS trial games and select some GPS boys and mix a few teams together in mid June and pick a couple of QLD Schoolboy Teams from there ? A lot more complicated isn’t it ? And then the there are the issues of the AIC boys being 1 week out from the start of their Rugby League season when Riverview is on , and , the GPS boys still running the risk of getting support and approval from their Schools when they have already shown their hand that they are not inclined to give it

Understand - this is not an opinion piece . It is actual fact of what has occurred and is occurring - where at every level , those with carriage of administration and decision making in the Rugby Community in QLD , and RA - with the exception of QSS , ASRU, the participating AIC Schools and Terrace , should hang their head in shame as to what’s happened here

 

[The Nomad]

In short, yes . Choosing an AIC team after the comp and GPS teams during trials and playing them against a CSS team to select Qld Schoolboys is what was already in place .

Most GPS boys are yet to pick up a footy and they are expected to be at their best in April?

The moment you make something the ONLY option , you should check first the majority are all in .

That’s not blaming anyone, just again poorly communicated.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

You are missing the point and are looking at it through a singular lens . AIC Schools didn’t really engage until very late in the piece and then chose to adapt - except for MCA. . GPS Schools pretty much clearly cut bait over the Summer and then with the exception of Terrace told their Rugby students it wasn’t a GPS supported or preferred pathway . What is a Rugby student at a GPS School , or at MCA then expected to do ?

QSS previously was only a convenor and still is . You do need the co-operation and support of all Schools who all previously made their players available for what you suggest . Without 9 or 10 major schools participation I don’t think you are properly considering the facts that they were not interested , and so , would not be assisting in preselection advocacy as to what had happened historically . Consequently there isn’t a realistic additional operational burden that the QSS would be equipped to handle in the timeframes that were presented , if , there is a belief that all games are watched fairly and evenly and meritorious selections then follow .

All of the AIC Schools had preseasons and/or Tours and Camps in the holidays. In GPS , Nudgee have been preparing through Term 1 as have a few other Schools . Just because no one has picked up a ball at Terrace doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened elsewhere , either in School programs , Academies or at Clubs .

We still come down to the undeniable fact that 9 or 10 of the Schools with , cumulatively , the best concentration of talent told the QSS, and by consequence the ASRU , to get stuffed . It all starts and stops there

 

[Torpedo Punt]

Wow, how to heat up a forum..good stuff...first a question to DLite I dont understand why the Reds academy is laughing...they are not doing a very good job and this will make their job harder....I guess they might laugh harder at their own arrogance ? Whats your view?

I dont really buy into R League being good or bad for these guys, its just the reality of where the dollars are if you are any good.
Everyone in this forum would like to see all of them trying hard for Reds spots but thats just not reality when there are 16 "other" sources of career footy. Alot of kids are faced with a RL development squad or an overseas rugby career which pretty much guarantees the end of your chances with the Reds.

In fact the AIC system may serve to keep them 16-20 seperate RU/RL school games over 2 terms ( incl trials ) which is all you need when other sports are clearly of interest to you also... instead of trying to keep a RL profile up by playing club RL and compete in the other schoolboy RU comp at the same time. Im sure the other schoolboy comp will add AFL and RL in the next few years. Dont believe me ? watch where the AFL / RL dollars go.

Last thing...ATC are several years away from fielding competitive rugby teams, and having depth in most sports. and the last thing teh AIC needs is more schools not being able to turn out at least 4 senior rugby teams.... I think it will happen but not for a few years.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Well it’s already happening isn’t it Torp ? With AFL and I think League providing officials and other support systems around their sports offering in AIC Schools . I’m sure other and more meaningful financial inducements will follow in time

In the meantime Rugby people and Educators that are supposedly aligned with Rugby at various points have overseen decline in participation and opportunity - and not just in sporting terms - on their watch . Good job.

 

[D'Lite Full]

TP,

The Reds Academy picked their squad in 2018 and with the majority of the GPS schools (effectively the majority of the schoolboy talent) plus the strongest rugby school (Marist) not playing the QSS pathway, that ensures they are seen as the main pathway with effectively no competition from the QSS pathway. Whereas before there was one pathway, there is now seemingly 2 competing pathways. Maybe QLD Schoolboys could play the U18 Reds Academy team (excl year 13 boys) as another selection trial?

As DM says, the lack of alignment from all parties hurts Rugby.

 

[The Nomad]

Lack of alignment only here in Qld. The NSW and ACT teams that head down to Riverview in July are incorporating their Academies.

Have heard , and happy to be corrected , that no WA and no Vic Schoolboy team as the Academies are what keep those states alive.

RA seems to have pulled their funding of Schoolboys and backed an Academy system, which those involved have been told is “fluid” , as in squads training , but not set in stone. If some kid in clubland ( including any U18 Colts player) , AIC , TAS or GPS is killing it during the year they can be added.

The way it currently stands you could have the ridiculous situation where the starting 10 for Aussie Schoolboys from late last year ( Pasitoa from NC ) , who is still at school this year is not eligible unless he shows up at Sunnybank. The Reds haven’t got him in their Academy as he has a contract with the Brumbies for next year. Hopefully still can be picked for Australia U18 at the end of Sept based on what he is likely to do during the GPS season. All very fucked up if one of the best schoolboy players in the country can’t be picked for Schoolboys.

 

[Serge Blanco]

Agree a complete schmozzle… AIC should have made an early (across the board) decision to hold Round 1 this week and have a bye round next WE. Instead what we have is individual schools with varying numbers of boys involved in the selection trials and involved in 11th hour deals with each other which has resulted in boys playing in the trials backing up on Tuesday night games and then the whole team having a 3 night turn around before Round 2. Extremely poor administration, but I guess we shouldn't be surprised with the decisions made at the state and national level of the game.

 

[Jets]

This trial at Sunnybank has been part of the selection process for Qld Schoolboys for quite some time . It previously has been the selection trials for the Combined Secondary Schools team that then went on to trial against AIC and GPS rep teams for Qld Schoolboys.

This year , for whatever reason might get put forward , the QSS decided to make it the ONLY selection process for Qld Schoolboys. If you don’t show up to your regional trials and then make your way to Sunnybank, you don’t get to play Qld Schoolboys and further down the line Aussie Schoolboys.

I know schools in the AIC and GPS plan their years ahead from a fair way out. The AIC draw was up well before the changes to Schoolboy selections were known. GPS schools as a generalisation don’t like being told what to do, if it disadvantages their position, it won’t happen. GPS schools have only just got out of their S&C programs .

Point fingers , but communication very poor !

This part isn't true. The National Schoolboy Championships will select the Australian Schoolboy Barbarians. The Australian Schoolboy and U18 squad will be made up of players from the State Academies and the Schoolboy Championships. In reality the Barbars squad picked from the Championships will not resemble the team that plays Samoan School in September because a number of players will be promoted to the Aust Schools & U18's team to tour NZ.

Also QSS are just bringing Rugby into line with every other school sporting pathway. They have been in discussions with the schools and QSRU for a few years.

 

[The Nomad]

Sorry Jets , I must have misunderstood something there.

My understanding is that the Schoolboys & U18s games against Samoa in Sept is chosen from the comp at Riverview.

The tour of NZ in Oct is an Australian U18 team ( no Schoolboys tag ) that is chosen through the Academy games + the best of Riverview. Again just my understanding, but this team is being run by RA , they can pick whoever they want as long as they are U18. Pretty sure it falls under the supervision of Jason Gilmore who heads up the junior Wallaby set up .

 

[Dean Moriarty]

This part isn't true. The National Schoolboy Championships will select the Australian Schoolboy Barbarians. The Australian Schoolboy and U18 squad will be made up of players from the State Academies and the Schoolboy Championships In reality the Barbars squad picked from the Championships will not resemble the team that plays Samoan School in September because a number of players will be promoted to the Aust Schools & U18's team to tour NZ.

Also QSS are just bringing Rugby into line with every other school sporting pathway. They have been in discussions with the schools and QSRU for a few years.

Meaning Academy boys and non Academy boys alike , who are still at School, from NSW , ACT and Victoria and are properly aligned , will effectively have two bites of the cherry

This is not the case in QLD where a reduction in participation and opportunity is the net outcome. It’s just a little bit arrogant, as it is clueless , to adopt an attitude to deny participation and opportunity for boys still at School through the National Schools Championships , when , the U18 players out of school , and in school who represented last year , should hold sway in the ( confusing ) Schools and U18 team

Let’s be clear and less confusing for everybody else and just call the top tier of competition that RA and the Super Rugby Franchises intends to be the case “ Australia U18’s”

And then let’s just call the State based Schoolboy Teams convened by the State based Depts of Education “QLD Schoolboys” etc which ultimately flows into “ Australian Schoolboys”

Or are you suggesting , Jets , that the prior intended “ Australian Schoolboys” game against Samoa in September has been re-badged to “Australian Barbarians” And if this is the case, and as you have posted , it implies that it is just not open to School based participation as it folds into the confusing “Australian Schools and U18”

If this is the case and the ASRU aren’t running their own show as previously intended - for School based students , then this is a shame , and , everyone should cut to the chase and just call it “ Australia U18” and drop the Schoolboy labelling.

If this is what’s happened , and at the risk of sounding like a broken record , 9 to 10 Schools in QLD have not done right by their Rugby students with the shut down of the opportunity to participate and compete . That much we know for sure

 

[Jets]

Here's the link to the Schools Rugby site for team management positions. Clearly names Australian Schools and U18's and another team Australian Schools Barbarians.

https://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2019/news/australian-schools-team-management-positions-announced/

Peter Hewitt appointed by RA, all other positions are teachers.

 

[Jets]

More detail about the selection process in this article.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6005343/canberra-duo-to-coach-australian-schools-barbarians/

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Thanks Jets. Sort of reaffirms my point earlier , that , for the sake of clarity , the ASRU should just name their teams :

1. Australian Schoolboys
2. Australian Barbarians

And that RA should just name their show :

1. Australia U18

And yes , RA's Australia U18 may well select players from Riverview , and of course , the Player would want to go and align to their tier as it associates more closely ( ultimately for them ) to the Super Rugby Franchise model.

NSW,ACT, and VIC boys still get 2 bites of the cherry whereas there are between 80 to 100 young men in QLD that get no bite of any cherry this year. How is that a good thing for RA , the Reds and the boys themselves ? Everyone is left in a poorer position to otherwise what could have been and should have been easily possible

 

[Jets]

The thing is the RA Australia U18 and ASRU Australian Schoolboys combine to play as the Australian Schools and U18 team.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Technically true for overladen labelling purposes. Prior points remain as they are when looking at the dysfunctional fuck up that is the QLD situation and that the QSS shouldn’t really bear the responsibility for. Maybe they underestimated the head in the arse position of the absentee schools and other organisational bodies upstream but then paddled hard late for school based opens rugby players

Anyone got some AIC news about Round 1 match ups ?

 

[Dean Moriarty]

And your original reply to Nomad ( post #198 ) is not correct Jets . The fact is if you are not one of an approximately 15 to 18 school based 17 to 18 year olds in the U18 Reds Academy , in Queensland , you are not eligible for selection to anything. There has been an approximate reduction of 80 to 100 prospects in Queensland. Sure , the Reds might think they have enough in say the 20 to 25 odd that have left school and are plying their trade at Club plus the approximate 15 or so 17 to 18 year olds still at school. There was no good reason to close off the Schoolboy pathway for ALL Opens Rugby players in Queensland ,many of whom may have had the same sporting and educational journey of those that have gone before them.

 

[Vik]

Trial at Villa Park - Villa 1st defeated Padua 29-26 after coming back from 26-14 down. Villa also had 2 yellow cards