Aussie Player Exodus

[Braveheart81]

It's seems stupid that Bernard Foley is the player that has broken the ducks back so to speak.

That's quite the mixed metaphor.

To'omua has already signed until the end of 2017, Folau is still in negotiations and there's a pretty strong chance that something like this will come into play for him.

Cooper has been injured a huge amount in the last few years. Who in their right mind (including Cooper) would think that playing rugby year round was the way to go for him?

There's also no guarantee that Foley will play for the Wallabies during this time. Presumably this has been pivotal in him still being available for Super Rugby and the Wallabies rather than not at all.

Based on the guidelines initially put out by the ARU, the only think this is likely to limit is the number of other Waratahs this could work for.

I'm not sure how you're thinking that this is holding the code to ransom. Presumably it means the ARU has to stump up far less cash and he's still available for selection for much of the year.

 

[Sully]

I think Foley is better than you give him credit for.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Opens up the chance he could go to Rio as well. And he is one XV guy that should be there

 

[KOB1987]

For mine, players to be worth a flexible contract should be
a) vitally important to the wallabies over a period of 2 seasons or so
b) Pretty much walk up starters I.e undisputedly the best in their position in the country, not just one of a couple of good options
c) fairly consistent in performance regardless of their teams' position etc.

I think as the incumbent #10 he pretty much meets all of those criteria, although I'd say for point (b) the parameter be a 'walk up' in to the 23 as the bench are as important as the starters these days. The only thing that would stop Foley being the starting 10 ATM is Cooper and he's busted most of the time.

I'm with Braveheart on this one...

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Does QC (Quade Cooper) still harbour ambitions to box in the Rugby Off-Season?

 

[swingpass]

one would assume that the impetus for this came from the Waratahs and perhaps Cheika himself. i agree that perhaps Bernard F was not the best test case.

edit:keeping him available for the Olympics might also have been a big consideration. plays Japan after RWC, comes back and plays a full HSBC 7's year, Rio 2016 , Japan after Olympics and back for the Tahs/Wallabies in 2017. Not too strenuous on the body hopefully.

 

[cyclopath]

Why do people think that this was something "offered" to Foley, and "not offered" to Cooper, or indeed anyone else? The decision to offer flexible contracts is quite new, and who might be in a position to take one up would depend upon where players are in their current contract status. Does anyone here actually know anything about the machinations of Cooper's contract future?
The fact that Cheika has come out in the media quite vocally in support of trying to keep Cooper in Aus rugby speaks volumes more than the ranting on an internet forum against a player someone just doesn't like.
Ultimately, if Cooper is dissatisfied enough at Qld with Graham, and is offered a big chunk of change by Toulon, it's hard to see any ARU contract matching that, or coming close. This is the harsh reality.
I really hope he stays, but I would understand if he left too.

 

[Braveheart81]

Another element to this is to look at Foley as a test case.

He is 25 and has stayed pretty healthy for most of his career.

He played every Super Rugby and test in 2014, playing 2015 Super Rugby and then the test season including RWC. He'll then go to Japan and play a season before returning to Australia in 2016 to play some combination of Super Rugby, test rugby and Olympic 7s. He'll then go back to Japan at the end of 2016 before returning to Super Rugby in 2017.

My guess is that his body will be struggling at some point in the middle there and it won't necessarily work out as the best choice.

It could prove to be a prime example of why players need off seasons.

James O'Connor has tried to do it and he seems to have constant niggling injuries now with less continuous seasons played back to back compared to what Foley is attempting.

 

[No4918]

Time to open up the player market across SANZAR members.

 

[Omar Comin']

Some players have done okay with extended playing. Brad Thorn for example, in his 30's, went to Japan straight after the 2011 world cup, then for a stint with Leinster, then back to Japan, and then to the Highlanders, and finally to Leicester. Basically 4.5 years without a real off-season.

 

[Dan54]

While not being a fan of players playing year round, I still think it a sensible option by ARU to allow Foley this in his contract. If you can't match huge dollars you have to find some other way of making it attractive to a player to stay. Not sure why anyone would think it will open up door for one and all to do it, I think it can be controlled, look how NZRU put rests etc in some players contracts, if managed there is no problem! . I actually can see a player like Folau given a sabbatical to play in France or somewhere, and have a fairly good part of a super season off, once again managed properly so he still gets a break when returning, he could still play for Wallabies after a couple of late S15 games back. Time to think outside the box a little bit chaps!

 

[Strewthcobber]

I agree its what we are going to have to do to keep some players

What does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth is that this is Foley's first ever ARU contract (assuming the 2 year rule is still in place). He hasn't done his time.

 

[Braveheart81]

What does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth is that this is Foley's first ever ARU contract (assuming the 2 year rule is still in place). He hasn't done his time.

Most of the players who have done the time wouldn't be interested in contemplating it I don't think.

They either want to hang around and maximise their chances of continuing to play for the Wallabies or leave and go and play overseas to make hay while the sun shines.

 

[hammertimethere]

Anyone read the comments from Greg Harris in the paper today? Foley signed his Japanese deal well before the flexible contract was on the table for him, effectively saying to the ARU "I'm having my cake, the only question is if you're going to feed it to me too".

To me, that sucks. That is not the way flexible contracts should be done. It should be something that is tabled as a possibility by the ARU I.e "hey, we really value you, you've been a great contributor here for a long time, we want to reward you by letting chase yen once (maybe twice if > 5-6 yrs in wallabies) through your next contract." Then they write the contract first making sure all the finer details are in Australian rugby's interest, not the Japanese club's and not necessarily the deepest recesses of the players wallet.

Let's be honest. Bernard Foley did what was right for Bernard Foley. He did rob the ARU of the initiative in this instance, effectively "holding them to ransom" as I said. His priorities were money first, Australian rugby second, which is fine in and of itself but in the context of this situation is a bad look.

What he did was not wrong per se, and I'm happy he'll be available for selection till 2018 but this deal was badly done. Let's hope it isn't repeated.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I wonder how the TRC is handled in both contracts (ARU & Japan) because he'll miss half of the Japanese season playing for the wallabies in Aug - Oct?

Especially if the Japanese contract was signed first......

 

[cyclopath]

When the stories about Foley going to Japan first surfaced, so too did the word that the ARU was looking at him playing some time there with a view to him being back in Oz for 7s consideration at least (and by the same act Super Rugby / Tests). This was before flexible contracts were "announced", but clearly not before they were being considered. I would think preliminary talks re his new contracts OS and here were conducted in that environment. The day something is announced or a contract is inked is not necessarily the time when the deal is done.

 

[Wilson]

If Foley misses the TRC there's every chance he'd lose his starting spot for the following eoyt. That said the games are played in a preordained international windows, his Japanese club would be required to release him for it.

 

[Strewthcobber]

If he plays TRC in 2016 then he'll potentially play just 7 regular season games in Japan.

Edit just checked the dates for Rio. Aug 2016. Fits in with the Japanese season perfectly

 

[Marcelo]

Another element to this is to look at Foley as a test case.

He is 25 and has stayed pretty healthy for most of his career.

He played every Super Rugby and test in 2014, playing 2015 Super Rugby and then the test season including RWC. He'll then go to Japan and play a season before returning to Australia in 2016 to play some combination of Super Rugby, test rugby and Olympic 7s. He'll then go back to Japan at the end of 2016 before returning to Super Rugby in 2017.

My guess is that his body will be struggling at some point in the middle there and it won't necessarily work out as the best choice.

It could prove to be a prime example of why players need off seasons.

James O'Connor has tried to do it and he seems to have constant niggling injuries now with less continuous seasons played back to back compared to what Foley is attempting.

People say Japanese rugby season is soft and short but with so many SANZAR players, Japanese rugby should be more and more tough every year.

 

[the plastic paddy]

We could use both at the Reds. But, I've heard the "Douglas might be back for the WC" rumour 50 times since last November, yet there doesn't seem to be any substance to it.

Douglas is out for the season and needs surgery on a back injury.