Australian Junior Rugby Union

[hollowman]

Next "What is the role of the QJRU? Is its primary role to co-ordinate State Championships and the representative teams that flow out of those championships?"
I support state junior organisation roles being limited to the running of their competitions and respective representative teams. All other administrative and policy issues should be dealt with by the one organisation nationally (ARU) to ensure consistency and efficient use of resources. The communication can be online and targeted directly to registered members, clubs and state organisations as appropriate. This avoids the burden on volunteers doing postman pat roles and taking responsibility for other persons/organisations matters. The junior registration process should be centralised as an online function with the players entering their data and clubs confirming their registrations are correct. There is no need for each layer of the junior structure to have separate policy documents for the same issues e.g. code of conduct. There is much that could be simplified. Swimming does this the best of the junior sports I have experienced. The processes NSW Swimming use are worth considering as an efficient model.

 

[hollowman]

More "Is it necessary to hold all age group (U13-17) State Championships at the one venue and at the same time of the year?
I can observe that NSW Juniors hold successful State Championships with age groups split between multiple venues over the June long weekend. Similarly NSW Country Juniors successfully hold country championships split between age groups, at different locations and staged over 3 consecutive weekends. The timing needs to align with the respective representative programs.

Should we be inviting more interstate and international teams to participate in our State Championships?
I guess it’s about striking the balance between number of participating teams, a sensible draw, available resources and not undermining the “appropriateness” that you have set as a key evaluation criteria.

 

[hollowman]

Lastly "Should the U12 and U19 age groups be included in the Junior Rugby Representative Pathway and what would this mean?"
My observation is that U12’s is a great age for commencing rep rugby at a zone or regional level. I support that state representation commences at U15 and not before. I don’t have enough knowledge of the pathways beyond school level and club under 18s to comment on the U19 age group.

Is selecting teams like CITY (Brisbane) and COUNTRY U15 and U17 an important step in the junior rep pathway to allow more players, coaches and managers a pathway to the Queensland Junior and higher representative teams?
Yes this is a good pathway. The more the state (club) and school pathways collaborate to ensure compatibility between their pathways and th competitions they run then the better the rugby experience for the players (and parents). Conflicting schedules, competitive selections etc. undermine “integrity”.

Is it important that at U15, U17 and possibly at U19 level we give our best junior club rugby participants the opportunity to play in interstate and perhaps in national and international competitions?
Perhaps this needs to be a progressive experience in keeping with the “appropriateness criteria” e.g. U15 – interstate, U17 - national age championships etc. Playing international teams is a great rugby experience. Just need to balance the demands and costs involved to avoid burn out.

Ends

 

[hollowman]

A FEW FACTS
AJRU's members are the state junior bodies e.g. NSWJRU, QJRU etc.
The AJRU does have a Strategic Plan
The AJRU does NOT place a levy on club juniors

Strategic Plan: key pillars

1.National U/17s junior pathway - well under way
2.Provision of administrative resources to support affiliates - under construction
3.Collaborative pooling of the grass roots voice on rugby - starting to gain momentum
4.Identify sustainable funding model - discussion with potential national sponsor(s)

Don, can you elaborate on the strategic plan please. Is there an overall objective that these 4 strategies are designed to achieve? What does provide administrative resources to support affiliates mean? For what outcomes and functions do they need resources? I gather better communication is the third pillar and your discussion paper is the issues that need "voicing"? Lastly have you a budget that explains what the organisation will use the funds for? Regards, Hollowman

 

[Hugh Jarse]

It seems to me that there are two organisations fighting over 13-16 year old rugby players, Schools Rugby Unions and Junior Rugby Unions. There seems to be three organisations developing U17-U19 year olds: Juniors, Schools, and Colts.

At U13-U15 year old there seems to be relative parity in skill levels between Clubland, with Schools. Many players in the Schools system also play for club teams.

At Under 16 the Schools start gathering the best clubland players, some by various enticements, some due to families only being able to afford 2 years school fees, some are similar but from country parents only being able to afford 2 years boarding fees in the city. These kids seem to become unavailable for their previous clubs for regular games, but many of the School rockstars seem to be available for State Championships and therefore representative selection. The general standard of play between Schools and Juniors starts to favour the Schools players.

Because of the ARU National Under 16 Championships, in NSW the same pool of rep level players seem to be available for both the Schools and Juniors Pathway Rep Teams, despite many not being genuinely in the Juniors pathway.

At Under 17 and Opens, the gap between Schools and Juniors is grows in the Schools favour. Some of the more talented players, not at the "Traditional Rugby Powerhouse Schools" register with Colts (Under 19) in order to play a "hard" standard of rugby, exacerbated by the fact that many of the Junior village club teams they were previously associated can not find sufficient players to field a viable team and they fold.

There is now three Associations at the U17+level (School, Juniors, and Colts) interested in the pool of Rugby playing youths, and it seems that there is little cooperation and far too much competition between the parties for the playing stock.

There is a strong argument for dual pathways (Schools and Juniors) but parents and players will do whatever is necessary to get in the various rep teams in the pathways.

Kids developed by Junior Village clubs will trial for a School Association rep team despite their School not having a rugby team. The better ones of these will be locked up by the School RU to make the strong stronger. Losing some of their gun players to Schools, further weakens the Juniors pathway gene pool, and can tempt sleectors to be a little loose with their eligibility criteria (augmented by pushy parents and players who may for whatever reason have been "overlooked" by the School system) in order to field a "strong" team for the State association.

The unfortunate reality is that there is only one pathway with a couple of footpaths alongside with many on the journey switching between those footpaths at will.

If the powers that be feel that it is essential that there is a National U15, U17, and U19 championship, to supplement the ARU U16, and Aust Schools RU U18 championships, then then why not make it open to all young rugby players, and have all 3 stakeholders (Colts, Juniors, and Schools) work together to administer them.

In fact why do we need three seperate organisations to run junior rugby?

Do we actually have enough quality volunteers, administrators, coaches and managers, and most importantly funding to run two seperate pathways efficiently and effectively?

Schools RU will claim they are "Grass roots" and "the future of rugby". The Juniors can also make the same claim. The power is divided and therefore reduced.

Merge the three bodies and establish one united voice, and some progress may be made. Establish One pathway and get more players on it. Stop diluting the efforts by having three parties fighting for primacy.

Is Australian Rugby ready for this?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hi Don. I have picked out a few of your questions which I feel confident in responding to with ideas.

Firstly "How do we put processes in place to guarantee integrity around selection?"

The commitment to integrity is an essential first step. Next is demonstrating the same in a publicly available selection policy that also details the selection procedures (selection committee structure, how conflicts of interest are managed, player eligibility and selection criteria (KPIs by position), how selection decisions are made and announced, communication about non-selection and an appeals process). Finally the policy must actually be and be seen to be implemented to have credibility. Words and actions must align. I think there are plenty of examples of what not to do throughout the forums. A number of Sydney clubs and NSW country junior etc have such a policy.

There will always be someone upset with selections and complain that there was bias even if the selectors were Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, and The Queen Mother. Hollowman's suggestion for openness and transparency are supported.

Also take a look at these documents about selection criteria and policy:
http://www.aisnsw.edu.au/Services/CIS/Documents/11_CIS_Primary_Rugby_Union_Selection_Document.pdf

and the "SDJRU TIP" document on this resource library http://southerndistricsjru.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?type=library

This document "The Waratah Way – Selecting: How to be transparent and fair!" used to be available through the NSW RU website under "Coaching". It is not there anymore, but you may be able to obtain a copy through your contacts.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

My two bobs worth on posts #42 and #43 above from Hollowman,

Is there too much emphasis on winning premierships, state and national titles in the lower grades (Under 10 - Under 16)?

The literature suggests that the focus in this age group should be on basic athletic development and skills acquisition. All too frequently, it seems to be about winning games not overall player development. Select and use the big boy as a battering ram against the smaller boys. Why waste time teaching the big boy evasion skills, and draw and pass when they will win the Coach and Parents a premiership simply by running straight over the top of the physically smaller boys in their age group? It is all about premierships and age group State Championships isn’t it?

The Canadian Long Term Athletic Development Model refers to this period as the “Learning to Train” Stage (Males 9-12 Females 8-11) and “Training To Train” (Males 12-16, Females 11-15) Stage. While this model is about developing world class elite athletes, if you ask nearly any parent or Coach in the Under 12’s about the future prospects of Xavier, Oliver, Angelo or Sione, and they would confirm that they are all future elite world beaters.

Learning to Train stage: (Males 9-12 Females 8-11)
Overall sport skills development;
Major skill learning stage: all basic sport Skills should be learned before entering “Training to Train”
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Introduction to mental preparation
Medicine ball, Swiss ball, own body strength exercise
Introduce ancillary capacities
Talent Identification
Single or double periodisation
Sport specific training 3 times week;
participation in other sports 3 times a week

Training to Train Stage (Males 12-16, Females 11-15)
Sport specific skill development
Major fitness development stage:
Aerobic and strength. The onset of Peak Height Velocity (PHV) and PHV are the reference points
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Develop mental preparation
Introduce free weights
Develop ancillary capacities
Frequent musculoskeletal evaluations during PHV
Selection
Single or double periodisation
Sport specific training 6-9 times per Week including complementary sports


“Training to Compete” Stage (Males 16-23+, Females 15-21+)
Sport, event, position specific physical conditioning
Sport, event, position specific technical tactical preparation
Sport, event, position specific technical and playing skills under competitive conditions
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Advanced mental preparation
Optimize ancillary capacities
Specialization
Single, double, or triple periodisation
Sport specific technical, tactical and fitness training 9-12 times per week

Training to Win Stage (Males 19+, Females 18+)
Ages are sport specific based on international normative data
Maintenance or improvement of physical capacities
Further development of technical, tactical, and playing skills
Modelling all possible aspects of training and performance
Frequent prophylactic breaks
Maximize ancillary capacities
High Performance
Single, double, triple, or multiple periodisation
Sport specific technical, tactical, and fitness training 9-15 times per week

The Training to Compete and Training to Win stages are really the realm of Colts, Juniors Opens, School Opens, and ARU HPU where there is an ability to provide the specialised development resources that are beyond the capacity of the enthusiastic Mum and Dad (or rostered Teacher) volunteer that is typically seen at Junior Village Club and lower ages in the Schools. There is an argument that Sydney Juniors should finish at Under 16’s, with Colts Programs running U17, U18 competitions albeit in a 14 week and finals format similar to the existing Juniors format.

More on the Canadian LTAD Model here http://canadiansportforlife.ca/sites/default/files/resources/RugbyOntarioWayAugust2011.pdf
And here
http://canadiansportforlife.ca/resources/rugby-ltad-rugby-canada

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Arbib Report into Strengthening the Governance of Australian Rugby has been published.
Copies available here: ->http://myrugby.rugby.com.au/myrugby/images/docs/Gov/Details.pdf

He had this to say about Community Rugby (Selective Quotes/Selective Boldfacing):

..individuals that I met with were uncertain of where their organisation sat within the Rugby system and what their role should be, let alone how they related to the other bodies.

This absence of clarity impacts negatively on many aspects of Rugby; from player development and pathways, talent identification, increasing community participation, communication with stakeholders, and developing revenue sources, including government funding and corporate sponsorship.

The configuration of community Rugby is complicated and fragmented, and this was a point raised throughout the consultation process. Ensuring that everyone, at all levels, has a clear understanding of where they sit, what their role is and how they relate to others is a simple and effective way of making sure the whole show runs more smoothly.

The multiple layers of administration have led in some areas to duplication and inefficiencies of programs and resources between Member Unions and the ARU. There was also a degree of confusion about who is responsible for many aspects of community Rugby, including developing and implementing strategies to grow participation.

In short, the current structure could be said to be delivering mixed results at best. And yet the importance of a healthy community Game cannot be overestimated.

Players and their friends and families at the local level are the most compelling advocates for Rugby throughout the broader community. Indeed, developing junior Rugby is more about ensuring the next crop of fans and supporters than it is about identifying future Wallabies. Without this loyal and committed base of support the professional teams are ultimately playing to empty stadiums.

Promoting greater accountability and clarity throughout the current system is required to increase the successful coordination and delivery of programs and services.

The benefits of increased coordination are clear, including greater leadership and direction, removing layers of duplication and inefficiency, better targeting of resources and improved communication with participants and volunteers.

Creating clarity of purpose and a sense of shared strategic vision from the grassroots up is an important first step in achieving greater alignment across Rugby. This needn’t be a difficult or onerous process and Queensland Rugby Union has already made great strides within their own State toward this goal.

It would seem that the conditions have been created for reform within Junior Rugby ranks.

I hope the AJRU receive the necessary support needed to achieve the vision of Arbib.

Have the AJRU reviewed the Arbib report, and what is their view on the content and recommendations?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

IIRC the AGM's of both the AJRU and NSW JRU (probs the QJRU as well) have been recently held.

Any news from these?

Things seem to have gone a little quiet.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Canadian LTAD (quoted above) suggests that there is a "Training To Compete" Stage
running from 16-23 in Males.

Are the Junior Rugby bodies the right entities to provide the necessary development in the U16-19 age group, or should this entity concentrate on the U6-U15 market, which is something that they do extremely well?

“Training to Compete” Stage (Males 16-23+, Females 15-21+)
Sport, event, position specific physical conditioning
Sport, event, position specific technical tactical preparation
Sport, event, position specific technical and playing skills under competitive conditions
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Advanced mental preparation
Optimize ancillary capacities
Specialization
Single, double, or triple periodisation
Sport specific technical, tactical and fitness training 9-12 times per week

 

[happyjack]

I would be very careful with what you read into the Arbib Report. Qld have very successfully transformed what was traditionally the best State Sporting Organisation in Australian Rugby into the best single team franchise.
Community Rugby is only about spectating, consumption and aggregation of sponsorship dollars to the Reds.
Not one dollar of QRU discretionary revenue has been spent on Community clubs or schools in the last 3 years.

 

[RugbyReg]

I would be very careful with what you read into the Arbib Report. Qld have very successfully transformed what was traditionally the best State Sporting Organisation in Australian Rugby into the best single team franchise.
Community Rugby is only about spectating, consumption and aggregation of sponsorship dollars to the Reds.
Not one dollar of QRU discretionary revenue has been spent on Community clubs or schools in the last 3 years.

very carefully written Gimme.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Yes Hugh I was talking about Cosgrove/Arbib.

Are there any timelines or milestones for implementation of the Arbib Report as they relate to AJRU?

Seems to be a bit of a "brain drain" from Juniors to Colts in the Under 17's and Under 18's (opens) in Sydney.

There is even talk about a Restricted Age Colts 4th grade competition.

Will those boys be eligible to represent their State JRU at AJRU national U17's tournament?

The National Juniors Under 17 competition would be poorer if they were excluded, but allowing them to participate would do little to encourage kids to stay with their Village Club and play in local Junior administered age group competitions.

 

[Almost 2 old]

Anyone who has ever been involved in their childrens sport at any level beyond the park level have been forced into the reality that there has GENERALLY been hidden motives for the promotion of various pathways. Justification for pathways CAN be more to do with maintaining the funding or possitioning of the pathway management body than the progression of an individual player. With rugby some developement officers will admit that with some parallel running pathways that the need for empire building and securing can exceed the original function of a pathway.

All of what I have just written has basically been echoed through this discussion but it is well high time for the ARU to step in to define what is a pathway where does it start and finish ,how do they seamlessly morph and how it is structured and administered because ulitimately it is rugby and the governing body is the ARU.

Self regulation of any system is flawed as the assesment of their systems, effectiveness and validity is done by themselves. This is why the ARU must get the pathways systems independantly evaluated and then streamlined. If this has already been done by Cosgrove & Arbib then pull/drag/set it into place.

To be fair this is not common only to rugby as I have 3 kids and all have been to national championships with their sport and the other 2 sports are just as heavy with confussing and overlapping pathways. Here is Mr Pulvers chance to address some critical short comings in the game.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some information on this little known organisation taken from last years ARU Annual Report available from ARU web site.

"THE year 2011 has been a watershed one for the Australian Junior Rugby Union. For some years there have been informal arrangements between members of the AJRU to participate in tournaments hosted by other members. It has been agreed by the members that these tournaments will move towards a national arrangement hosted by the AJRU.

Funding is always an issue for a volunteer organisation. AJRU members are all volunteer organisations funded by themselves and their ARU member affiliates. Pressure on funding continues to be a burden and AJRU members have confirmed their objective to break out of
this cycle.

Member events such as the NSWJRU State Championships and the QJRU State Championships were wonderful spectacles of the talent produced by Juniors. Smaller members of the Australian Juniors Rugby Union contributed to the pageantry of these events by sending representative teams from their programs to participate in these tournaments. Of particular note is the improvement in Victorian and West Australian entries in these competitions.

The highlight of the year was the tristate playoffs between ACT, NSW and Queensland. U15s, U16s and U17s from each union participated in a three day tournament in early October. It was NSW's year, but that did not diminish the intensity or the display of extraordinary talent from every team. ACT departed the playoffs to travel to West Australia where they played a number of games against WA Juniors. The Australian Junior Rugby Union is looking forward to 2012 with great enthusiasm.

AUSTRALIAN JUNIOR RUGBY UNION President: Paul Taylor, Vice President: Martin Sullivan, Secretary: Paul De Guigand"​

They didn't seem to achieve too much in 2011, but it looks like that did notice that QLD and NSW juniors had a state tournament each which others attend. They also seem to take credit for organising a 3 day tournament somewhere for 3 teams from 3 associates across 3 age groups which one of the participants visited WA on the way home.

There is also an intent to break out of a burdensome funding cycle. No details of how they will break that cycle. Maybe they intend to talk to the Balmain Rugby Club.

The AJRU executive appear to have earned their salary.

While there was a degree of cynicism in the above post, it is rather more remarkable that the ARU 2012 report contains nothing from the AJRU.

Have they be reorganised out of existance, or just gone underground and become more secret?

The ARU participation figures claims that there are 50, 412 junior rugby participants (or 1/3 of all male rugby participants - Seniors, Juniors and Schools 1), yet the peak body allegedly representing these 50000 participants does not get a mention in the annual report.

Is this an administrative oversight on behalf of the overworked interns in Rugby Central or a deliberate and calculated snub by the Mandarins of Rugby Central?

Third option is that the ARJU were so flat out doing what they said they were going to do in 2011 report that they didn't have time to report their 2012 progress.

Does anyone know what the AJRU did last year, and what they are intending to do this year?

Who is on the Board of the AJRU and who are the committee members and how can we communicate with them, or must we follow strict communication protocols and communicate through our Village Club Presidents to Sydney JRU thence to NSW JRU and finally to AJRU?

The latter approach would probably make sense, and would ensure that a considered response would be delivered promptly, with all issues covered and no hint of spin.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

HJ: you need to know the secret handshake.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jets]

Don Parry are you still around. Would love to get an update from you on what's happening with the AJRU. Will there be a National U17 championships this year?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Bump.

Plenty of questions. Not many answers.

I see that the old guard have more or less moved on from NSW Junior RU Executive.

Have they promoted themselves upstairs to Australian Junior RU Executive?

If that is the case then we can look forward to some new ideas and action.

A usually reliable snout tells me that there will not be any National Club Championships this year, and that the pathway is being reviewed.

If this is true then all this will do is to discourage growth in areas outside the private schools. What incentive is there for kids outside the State I & II teams in NSW and QLD to train for representative teams via junior village club competitions?

For the game to grow, kids who do not go to private schools need to be able to play rugby in decent competitions, with representative opportunities. A couple of gala days and selection trials for CHS or CCC does not represent a decent competition or present too much of an opportunity to teach players and for them to practice and develop new skills.

 

[Jets]

Junior rugby is a minefield in my view. Lots of people get involved with good intentions but they seem to get distracted by the political landscape.

A pathway for junior club players would be great. National champs and a national team would provide this.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Any update on the 2013 National Junior Championships for Under 15 and Under 17 players?

Or answers to any of the other as yet unanswered questions above?