Australian Rugby / RA

[Killer]

TF will do what's best for TF.....

aaahh, we're all doomed, you are so depressing Slim.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think you would also find that the distribution of the top ups would have more of an impact on the performance and the bulk of that money was definitely not going to the Rebels.

I think it is now obvious that the bulk of the extra funding, approx $14m did go to the Rebels. However, if the backers who came to the rescue at the 11th hour to save the license being sold back to the ARU copped up the reported $6 - 7m then it might be that that proportion actually filled someone else's pockets.

 

[MarkJ]

My only interest is in decreasing the power of the ARU in every possible way and thus empowering TF who can then drain the ARU swamp. I trust that TF will do what is best for Aus rugby, all of Aus.

Forgive me if I'm wary of billionaires promising to 'drain the swamp'

 

[James Pettifer]

What's your point? The Rebels also got double the funding of the Force and far more than the other teams.

My point is that the Force isn't this great tournament dominating team that some people seem to be suggesting. They had a mediocre year in a completely shit year for Australian teams. Perhaps it was a rebuilding year and the start of something good or perhaps it would have been like 2014 where they won 9 games and were very close to a final and then in 2015 ended up with the wooden spoon. And it is shit that we won't get to find out


The Tah's get about an extra $2.5 million per year on top ups for players. That should result in a much stronger team and better performance. I don't see how the other funding is going to make a massive difference to on field performance

I honestly don't know where the Rebels have been wasting money but they have clearly been massively and consistent mismanaged. What I can't understand is why the ARU gave them an open check book.

 

[Moono75]

Very simple answer. The ARU wanted to be in the Melbourne market 'the big time" and see the Rebels succeed. They didnt care about the Force or Perth market. The Rebels have been protected and nurtured financially and from the looks in the ARU boardroom.

 

[Ruggo]

It was asked why would the government back Twiggy Rugby? There are plenty of reasons, we are playing on the political field here remember. Twiggy pushes the right buttons and sends the right messages. Unlike the Clowns at the ARU, he knows how to gain social license or at least the image of. Governments back this stuff and they also back self interest. The federal government could easily lose the next election in WA alone based on current polling. It will pump resources West and Twiggy is one of its key friendly's over there. Backing Twiggy could be very easily sold given that he has imaged himself as quite the philanthropist over the last few years. It is a very easy political sale for the government.

 

[Sauron]

My point is that the Force isn't this great tournament dominating team that some people seem to be suggesting. They had a mediocre year in a completely shit year for Australian teams. Perhaps it was a rebuilding year and the start of something good or perhaps it would have been like 2014 where they won 9 games and were very close to a final and then in 2015 ended up with the wooden spoon. And it is shit that we won't get to find out

Uhhh... literally nobody is suggesting that the Force dominated the tournament.

 

[James Pettifer]

Uhhh. literally nobody is suggesting that the Force dominated the tournament.

Well not dominating, but it is a common comment that the Force are a strongly performing side over recent times and the Rebels have been a poorly performing side over recent times.

 

[Leo86]

Rebels and Force statistics are similar since Rebels inception, the argument probably is the conditions provided by the parent body, where one team with no support matched that of a team with no one can argue money, allowances and so forth.

The Force were on one hand providing players through the WA system to Wallabies (not to say Vic couldnt given the same time, another 5 yrs)

Stats
Both not heartland
Both havent done the greatest (but do expansion teams immediately?)
1 cost a hell of a lot more than the other and wasnt/isnt performing both on and off the field.

Obviously im biased and only follow more of the going ons in WA, Rebels supporters by all means defend your team (but maybe shoot your admin)

 

[James Pettifer]

Rebels and Force statistics are similar since Rebels inception, the argument probably is the conditions provided by the parent body, where one team with no support matched that of a team with no one can argue money, allowances and so forth.

The Force were on one hand providing players through the WA system to Wallabies (not to say Vic couldnt given the same time, another 5 yrs)

Stats
Both not heartland
Both havent done the greatest (but do expansion teams immediately?)
1 cost a hell of a lot more than the other and wasnt/isnt performing both on and off the field.

Obviously im biased and only follow more of the going ons in WA, Rebels supporters by all means defend your team (but maybe shoot your admin)

There are 7 players this year from the Rebels who played for the Wallabies who have not played for any other Super Rugby team (Hodge, McMahon, Uelese, Smith, Koroibete, Naivalu). One of those (Uelese) is 20 and developed his rugby in Melbourne. By my count, there are 3 players from the Force who played for the Wallabies who have not played for any other Super Rugby team (Rona, HP, Hardwick) - all of whom are local.

Both teams are clearly providing Wallabies and losing the Force is tragic and will have a demonstrably negative impact on Australian rugby. But the Rebels are doing pretty well at supporting the national team given the young age of the team as it takes time for the pathways to take effect.

There are a number of other young players who are also local to the Rebels who are in the squad including Tuipulotu (11 appearances - 20 years old), Sa'aga (1 appearance - 22 years old), Ha'angana (1 appearance - 18 years old) and Rob Leota (1 appearance - 20 years old).

In addition, there was only one player in the Australian under 20 squad for the world cup tagged as being from WA who is from Brisbane. There were 5 tagged as being from Victoria, 2 of whom are local players (1 being Uelese).

 

[Leo86]

I did say WA system and im glad you provided the U20s as i said given more time Vic could/would/should provide more. Smith was at chiefs prior? Really this probably proves more how 5 franchises was helping in identifying talent and improving depth

 

[farva]

Id challenge that point about the U20s. Clay Uys was a late call up to the U20s and played a number of games. He is a local product. Nick Jooste was there too, and is a local WA product who moved to Canberra.
So there are 2 local WA U20s and 2 local Vic U20s in the squad.

 

[James Pettifer]

Id challenge that point about the U20s. Clay Uys was a late call up to the U20s and played a number of games. He is a local product. Nick Jooste was there too, and is a local WA product who moved to Canberra.
So there are 2 local WA U20s and 2 local Vic U20s in the squad.

That's fair. I just used one of the squad listings and didn't check all of the players individually.

 

[James Pettifer]

I did say WA system and im glad you provided the U20s as i said given more time Vic could/would/should provide more. Smith was at chiefs prior? Really this probably proves more how 5 franchises was helping in identifying talent and improving depth

You are right on Smith. I should have known that

Definitely - 5 franchises help to identify talent. For example, I really doubt that Hodge would be playing for Australia if we had only 4 teams - he would have been waiting a fair bit longer for a start.

Hopefully the time until the Force returns is as short as possible.

 

[farva]

Also, the Force has the following players, in the current squad, who represented the Wallabies from the Force:
Faulkner
Cowen
Hodgson
McCalman
Rona
Hardwick
DHP

In addition, Meakes and Ainsley made the squad but did not play this year, and Lance made the Bench but did not play last year.

 

[Aurelius]

TF will do what's best for TF.....

I'm just a little bewildered by this attitude to Forrest, I have to admit. Forrest doesn't have to lift a finger to help rugby in WA. Just like he doesn't have to donate $400m to charity, or give his time and profile to highlight the global slave trade, or champion welfare reform in Aborigine communities. But he does it all anyway. I'm not saying he's a saint, and this competition will either suceed or fail, but the way some people here go on about him, you'd think he was someone like Clive Palmer or Nathan Tinkler or Donald Trump, and all I can do is shake my head.

 

[James Pettifer]

I'm just a little bewildered by this attitude to Forrest, I have to admit. Forrest doesn't have to lift a finger to help rugby in WA. Just like he doesn't have to donate $400m to charity, or give his time and profile to highlight the global slave trade, or champion welfare reform in Aborigine communities. But he does it all anyway. I'm not saying he's a saint, and this competition will either suceed or fail, but the way some people here go on about him, you'd think he was someone like Clive Palmer or Nathan Tinkler or Donald Trump, and all I can do is shake my head.

To be honest, I know bugger all about him - but he is chairman of a charity which aims to abolish slavery (estimated 20-30 million people today). That puts him on the good side from my perspective.

People have their views without necessarily much fact behind it. For example, I used to think that Ashton Kutcher was some stupid actor and then I saw his speech to the US Congress on Human Trafficking and how his company Thorn fights the sex trading particularly with regards to children and I realised that I had vastly underestimated him.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm just a little bewildered by this attitude to Forrest, I have to admit. Forrest doesn't have to lift a finger to help rugby in WA. Just like he doesn't have to donate $400m to charity, or give his time and profile to highlight the global slave trade, or champion welfare reform in Aborigine communities. But he does it all anyway. I'm not saying he's a saint, and this competition will either suceed or fail, but the way some people here go on about him, you'd think he was someone like Clive Palmer or Nathan Tinkler or Donald Trump, and all I can do is shake my head.

Has the amount he's donated to indigenous communities compensated them for the amount he cheated them out of? Obviously not with the lawsuits pending..........

And let's not get started on the welfare cards he's trying to peddle......... his comments towards the Greens on this matter revealed his true character.

I'll be happy for the ARU to take his money.......... but let's not kid ourselves, the guy isn't much different from those other guys you named.

 

[jimmydubs]

Has the amount he's donated to indigenous communities compensated them for the amount he cheated them out of? Obviously not with the lawsuits pending.....

Is that accusation based on any fact? My impression was the lawsuits are between communities as to who gets the royalties that are already set aside and nothing to do with him cheating them. Am I wrong?

 

[Boof1050]

Has the amount he's donated to indigenous communities compensated them for the amount he cheated them out of? Obviously not with the lawsuits pending....

And let's not get started on the welfare cards he's trying to peddle... his comments towards the Greens on this matter revealed his true character.

I'll be happy for the ARU to take his money.... but let's not kid ourselves, the guy isn't much different from those other guys you named.

How can you possibly put him the same category as Tinkler and co? For a start he can see his shoe laces and still fit in a rugby jumper. C'mon slim stop being so savage on the world.