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Australian Rugby / RA

7083

Allen Oxlade (6)
If you can't see the crux of my point and how your criticism of the ARU is not the ARU's failing, it's pointless discussing any of this with you.


The crux of your point is Harold Matts is not free... But it is for the players. There are numerous things wrong with the JGC. After the first year I filled in the survey on what we all thought of the programme. In the comments section I wrote what many parents thought needed to be done to fine tune it. I even put my name, email address and phone number so as not to be an anonymous sniper. Still waiting for a reply.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Yes and you are saying the ARU got it very wrong. That's your exact comment.

How is it the ARU's fault that the NRL Clubs are a strong enough commercial enterprise that they can run these teams (and always have for their own development), but rugby union's clubs are not?

How is this something the ARU got wrong?

As I said, the Harold Matthews is not free. It costs money. Fortunately the clubs are able to pay for it. This is not good NRL management. This is just how it is.

Part of the reason that opposing codes are so strong is the strength of their clubs as independent entities, which pre-dates professional rugby. Yet people want to lump every failing on the ARU.
 

7083

Allen Oxlade (6)
And yet, it's not. I think that says more about your understanding than anything else.



You have identified an actual weak point. I guess we'd better fold the program.

As it happens, that has been identified as an issue previously. Some JGC centres have policies to deal with it. Others may not.

Either way, I'm pretty sure that if you want something changed, anonymous internet arguments probably won't get much sorted.


Some centres have a policy? It should be an across the whole programme policy. This is about rugby so to allow kids to come in and take our elite spots away from kids that've been playing our game since they were U7s only to return to their chosen code is wrong. My son played one year. He pulled out the next year for many reasons but the main one was it was summer. Kids playing rugby in 40 degree heat in country NSW. Madness. There's many things they need to do but the first one is line it up with the NRC. They could play a game before the big boys.
 

7083

Allen Oxlade (6)
Yes and you are saying the ARU got it very wrong. That's your exact comment.

How is it the ARU's fault that the NRL Clubs are a strong enough commercial enterprise that they can run these teams (and always have for their own development), but rugby union's clubs are not?

How is this something the ARU got wrong?

As I said, the Harold Matthews is not free. It costs money. Fortunately the clubs are able to pay for it. This is not good NRL management. This is just how it is.

Part of the reason that opposing codes are so strong is the strength of their clubs as independent entities, which pre-dates professional rugby. Yet people want to lump every failing on the ARU.


They're the governing body that started the programme... Where else would the blame lie. Again, great concept,poor execution. The way it was explained to parents was it was to compete with Harold Matts and Ball, it woul not interfere with the boys summer sports and it would not interfere with their regional rep programmes. I'm not anonymous about this. I have written, called and spoken to ARU and Tahs officials. The reply is pretty much "Oh well mate. That's just the way it is".

The more we do things wrong the more they become SOPs.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Yes and you are saying the ARU got it very wrong. That's your exact comment.

How is it the ARU's fault that the NRL Clubs are a strong enough commercial enterprise that they can run these teams (and always have for their own development), but rugby union's clubs are not?

How is this something the ARU got wrong?

As I said, the Harold Matthews is not free. It costs money. Fortunately the clubs are able to pay for it. This is not good NRL management. This is just how it is.

Part of the reason that opposing codes are so strong is the strength of their clubs as independent entities, which pre-dates professional rugby. Yet people want to lump every failing on the ARU.
You completely ignore the lack of investment the ARU makes in grassroots.
Both the AFL & NRL spend multiples of what the ARU spends as a percentage of revenues.
That is entirely their fault.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Really? Because the ARU has until now contributed more to club rugby per team than the NRL contributes to State Leagues. In addition prior to 2015 the NRL Salary Cap was higher than the NRL grants to the teams.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Y
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au...by-league-hit-with-a-4-million-funding-boost/

This article hear notes a $4M funding program (Only 50% provided by the NRL) is the biggest funding injection in the games history.

A game that crows about it's TV deal of $200M per year is chipping $2M or so into grassroots apparently.
You have misinterpreted the article.
It refers to funding for facilities.
Improving change rooms etc.
Funding of the grassroots is totally different.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Apologies. Until 2014.

That's $23M to State Leagues, not directly to the teams either. How much of it is retained by the QRL and NSWRL?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
So this was $17M in 2013 against total revenue of $320M and total club grants of $130m. So it's been about 15% of the club grants. and less than 10% of total revenue.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
So this was $17M in 2013 against total revenue of $320M and total club grants of $130m. So it's been about 15% of the club grants. and less than 10% of total revenue.
From NRL 2014 A/R
$23M to State Leagues
$26M to game development
$14M of NRL club grants reserved for growth & strategic priorities,
$20M to referees,community,education & welfare.
That's $83M.
How much/ what percentage of revenues does the ARU allocate?
 

Brendan Hume

Charlie Fox (21)
From NRL 2014 A/R
$23M to State Leagues
$26M to game development
$14M of NRL club grants reserved for growth & strategic priorities,
$20M to referees,community,education & welfare.
That's $83M.
How much/ what percentage of revenues does the ARU allocate?

They're incredible numbers. From memory, that's almost the entire ARU revenue predicted for this year (albeit a shit year with the truncated local international season).

Report in the last couple of days that the new NRL deal is expected to be worth around $1.7B with every game broadcast live on FOX?

There is no way Rugby can compete with these numbers that the AFL and NRL can boast, and probably no way it ever will now. It's important we develop our niche and use the points of difference to promote the game in the best ways we can.
 

7083

Allen Oxlade (6)
So this was $17M in 2013 against total revenue of $320M and total club grants of $130m. So it's been about 15% of the club grants. and less than 10% of total revenue.


Really I don't care what league do. I just care what rugby don't do. The first year of the JGC the ARU spent $150,000 on it. Now to those of us at grassroots level would say that's an investment in junior rugby. Not they ARU. They said they LOST $150,000.

If the really want the JGC to be a true development/pathway for rugby players they need to get out and find sponsors to pay for the kids to play. I know many kids that'd be better than those picked but their parents can't afford the $660.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
The main lesson is that rugby is strong in New Zealand now because it has always been strong. Not sure what we can learn from that. The code here has competition that New Zealand has never ever had.


By the way, the role of the poker machine in the sixties and succeeding decades in strengthening our main competitor hugely and (from any sporting viewpoint) undeservedly is worth contemplating. I am no sports historian, but loig got a much greater foothold in the sporting landscape because of the extraordinary revenues that flowed into the game, not from spectator admissions, or club memberships, or even media rights, but from problem gamblers back in the days when it was open slather, little or no government taxes, and no supervision.


As for the relative sporting landscapes, one of my neighbours is a New Zealander, mad keen about the code, of course, and very knowledgeable. He said to me the other day that the big difference is that every mother in New Zealand knows the rules of the game. An exaggeration, of course, but still a pretty telling comment.

By the way, his brother lives in Sydney, and he has a 15 or 16 year old son who is really carving it up in both loig and rugby. He is in Randwick's development squad and he has had some coaching by Simon Poidevin, who really rates him apparently.

He has just had an offer from St George to go into their Harold Matthews squad.


Where do you think he will go?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
^^^The number of Polynesian boys, including those who have come via NZ, currently in the NRL provides at least part of the answer.

In the example that you cite, at least the kid concerned has had access to club rugby and some reasonable rugby coaching. There are plenty of kids living in Sydney who have never been exposed to the game - therein lies much of the problem.

Israel Folau being the most notable example that we all could name.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Interesting point about poker machines, and the role that they had in bank rolling Loig.

Back in the day, Pokies were only allowed in NSW. In Border towns areas like Tweed Heads/Coolangatta, Albury/Wodonga, Mildura/Wentworth, Queanbeyan/Canberra you would see the community club on the Qld/Vic/ACT side of the border was not much more than a lean-to shack supported by chook raffles and sausage sizzles, whereas on the NSW side, the various club houses were multi story establishments with all the bells and whistles, drawing touring international acts with restaurants, ball rooms multiple bars and stuff.

Back in the day, NSW RL drew all the players from QLD and the QRL clubs were development pathways en route to the Sydney Clubs. Players headed to where the money was, and in the 70's and 80's that was Sydney.

In the poor days when QLD didn't have pokies or the Broncos, and all their decent mungoballers were heading to Sydney, how "popular" was Fivekick "up North", compared with Rugby?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
This could have been posted in many threads.
The following article has lessons in it for every aspect of the game in this country.
Well worth a read: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...ks-how-new-zealand-sustains-its-rugby-dynasty

Illustrates much of what I've thought for a while. Rugby is completely ingrained throughout the culture in NZ, at all levels of society, across all socio-economic and cultural groups.

Imagine state school teachers in NSW volunteering to coach sports teams out of school hours.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Great to see - people want to see more emphasis on scoring through tries than penalties...

May be a few on here who don't think broke so why change but sporting landscape is very competitive for supporters etc and people want to be entertained so you change or die a slow death....as entertainment factor is key theme driving change for many codes....look at cricket reinvent itself with things like T20 and Big Bash....

Rugby can't stand still as other footballing codes are not...
 
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